Fossil Claw Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) I bought this large turtle skull fossil (about 9 inches by 9 inches). Found in the Sahara desert. approx.. 65M years old. Bough it from a USA seller. The matrix broke apart in shipping but the fossil itself still looks good. Does this ruin the value of the piece? See pictures. Trying to determine if I should return it or not? Attached is a picture before shipping and then some damage pictures after shipping. Thank you. Edited December 27, 2014 by Fossil Claw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I am sorry to say that the skull appears to have been fabricated. Hopefully the seller did not represent the piece as authentic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I think it is broken to a degree that it is not even a fossil. I would return it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I have to add my strong reservations about its authenticity. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Fossils sold in the States from Morocco have a high degree of forgery associated with them. Sadly I agree with the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 What ruins the value of the fossil is the fact that it is fake. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Hey guys... To help out the original post, I would like to hear why you guys are all so quick to call it a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Hey guys... To help out the original post, I would like to hear why you guys are all so quick to call it a fake. Let’s start with the way the matrix so perfectly broke off the “skull” without any damage to it. In this case, it does not seem to be a natural weakness in the rock that released during transit in the way it is so perfect and this is highly suggestive that the two were not properly connected and are not associated. What matrix is left on the edges of the “skull” looks like what is left after smearing fake matrix paste (some sort of crushed genuine rock mixed with glue concoction) between the “skull” and the matrix pedestal. The matrix base (from the photos) appears to be a fake medium too which is the same as in those “compound mosasaur jaws” from the drying pattern of the slightly lighter bits. The edge of the matrix looks as if it was not carved into shape but rather moulded. I would try breaking another bit off and submerging it in water to see what happens - if my theory is correct, it should dissolve. Now onto the “skull”. Let’s just say, it looks a bit strange as it does not appear like real bone, all one continuous piece with no crack marks in expected areas. The “skull” looks to be carved, see attached picture highlighting something strange going on with the forming. A genuine skull would not have this mark from being carved when not fully set. I am also not sure what the white patches are doing in the “eye sockets”, looks to me like it is unpainted plaster. The way it comes from Morocco is also a clue to this being a counterfeit; it is not uncommon to see fake Moroccan fossils, and putting that together with the clues from how your specimen was presented, my conclusion has come to call this bogus. Maybe some of that made sense to you. After a while looking at fossils for sale and preparing your own, some specimens show red flags without much thought so it becomes difficult to explain thought processes without saying “because it is”. I agree that sometimes these judgements can be wrong, but most of the time red flags are red flags. Thanks jpc for bringing up how we came to our conclusions as it will help others understand. Regards, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Hey guys... To help out the original post, I would like to hear why you guys are all so quick to call it a fake. I've seen lots of these faked at the Tucson Show which makes me biased. I would call this one very suspicious because I just don't like the way the bone looks. Also the way the skull separated from the matrix is very odd and just adds to my suspicion. Bottom line I would have to have it in my possession to make a final call on it. Just too many variables why would return it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 The sutures of the skull are a poor parody of the real thing. Enlarge it, JP, and try to sort them out; they ain't right! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 It has that 'homemade' sandstone look to it. RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Among a bunch of other things, I agree with Auspex that the sutures aren't right based upon the real fossil turtle skulls that my son has found. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evgeny Kotelevsky Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 And were is lower jaw??? I see only cranial part... This skull is fake, sorry http://evgenykotelevsky.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 It doesn't "look" right overall. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triceratops Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 At first I thought it was an alien skull. -Lyall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Claw Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Sent it back. Seller still insist that it is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Thanks, guys. I wasn't asking for my own enlightenment, but rather for the original poster's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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