Jaxdaddy Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 O.K. There is always alot of good info in here, so I am going to ask for a little help. Does anyone know the best way to get ammonites out of limestone? I have found some beautiful ammonites with very complex suture patterns at Benbrook Lake in Tarrant County Texas. The ammonites are found in the Edwards and Commanche Peak formation (Cretaceous) which are very, very hard limestones. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxdaddy Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 By the way, I already tried asking them nicely, and that didn't work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 just move there, build a residence and shelves around them, and add lighting for ambiance. p.s. - here, <handing you a block of something> light the end of this thing sticking out here and lay this down on the limestone near the ammonites and run... p.p.s. - seriously, you can chisel for years or use a portable rock saw. i'd take pictures of them and leave them where they are, but i'm weird that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceH Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 In ammonites I've used flat tip screwdrivers as chisels using the handle of another screwdriver as the hammer (light taps). Plastic/wood hitting against plastic/wood makes a difference in the "feel" of removing tiny bits of limestone between the ribs. I have not tried any electric chisels yet. Pressure washing at the car wash can do a good job of removing loose limestone from ammonites also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxdaddy Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 I like the chisel method better than Tracers dynamite method. However the dynamite might work if I have 5 gallons of super glue and alot of time on my hands. I may go out there and try to get a good one to practice on. There are alot of broken pieces out there that people have tried to pry up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonemanX3 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Try digging a 1/2 in to 1 and 1/2 in trench around it depending on the size of rock. Then angle chisel towards fossil and give a sharp blow and it should pop loose. It doesn't work for all rock so if it doesn't work just take pictures or get a stone saw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 "I like the chisel method better than Tracers dynamite method. However the dynamite might work if I have 5 gallons of super glue and alot of time on my hands." now, now, i never said the "d-word". but there might be a way to sort of drill underneath, put the um, "energetic material" in the hole, and put some superglue all over the fossils, and maybe some space shuttle tiles or something, and who knows? you might be the first guy to place ammonites in low-earth orbit! say, um, do you know what the astrological signs of these ammonites are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxdaddy Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 Sorry Tracer. It would be fun to put some in orbit. If I had to guess the astrological sign of them, I would say pices or cancer. I was thinking that an air scribe might work for cleaning them after I get them out. What does everyone else think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 ...here, <handing you a block of something> light the end of this thing sticking out here and lay this down on the limestone near the ammonites and run... "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxdaddy Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 Gotta love Homer!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I would use a chisel, but take your time, and move out from the ammonite2 or 3 inches so that you don't hurt it. Just don't get in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn835 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Cordless drill with small masonry bit about 1/4 in. Go slow and drill all around it about 1/2" apart then hit holes, should come out pretty easy. Then maybe acid or vinegar to soften stone, then chisel or air scribe. Or..............................Dynamite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! With rocks in my head, and fossils in my heart.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 O.K. There is always alot of good info in here, so I am going to ask for a little help. Does anyone know the best way to get ammonites out of limestone? I have found some beautiful ammonites with very complex suture patterns at Benbrook Lake in Tarrant County Texas. The ammonites are found in the Edwards and Commanche Peak formation (Cretaceous) which are very, very hard limestones. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. OK - quick question for reference. Are you talking about getting the ammonites out of the limestone in the ground or do you already have them at home and are wanting to remove the excess matrix??? If the first case. . . I suggest using a 3lb hand sledge and a cold chisel (with appropriate eyewear) and trenching around the embedded ammonite not closer than 4" to the ammonite. hopefully if you complete the trench around the ammonite to a proper depth you'll be able to undercut it and take it with you. HOWEVER be sure to have some consolidant with you when you are doing this. Ammonites have a nasty habit of cracking due to vibration - after all they are a weakness in the matrix. If you're talking about the 2nd case - the airscribe is the way to go. And yes - practicing on a "project" ammonite to figure out the best way to complete your task is better. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 <<The ammonites are found in the Edwards and Commanche Peak formation (Cretaceous) which are very, very hard limestones. >> Just a quick note. . . from my geologic maps (thank you Lance) Benbrook lake in Tarrant County is surrounded by the Duck Creek, Goodland, Weno and Kiamichi formations (on the surface) which are lower Cretaceous (Fredricksburg and Washita Divisions). I don't think the Edwards and Commanche Peak formations come into play until you get a bit further west and south. Now I am NOT a geologist so I could be wrong. But if so - it will help you identify you ammonites if you know the correct formation you're taking them from. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 What Roger said, plus sometimes after you have beat the snarge out of all the rock around the ammonite, the vibrations will eventually cause the critter to pop loose from the matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxdaddy Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 OK - quick question for reference. Are you talking about getting the ammonites out of the limestone in the ground or do you already have them at home and are wanting to remove the excess matrix???If the first case. . . I suggest using a 3lb hand sledge and a cold chisel (with appropriate eyewear) and trenching around the embedded ammonite not closer than 4" to the ammonite. hopefully if you complete the trench around the ammonite to a proper depth you'll be able to undercut it and take it with you. HOWEVER be sure to have some consolidant with you when you are doing this. Ammonites have a nasty habit of cracking due to vibration - after all they are a weakness in the matrix. If you're talking about the 2nd case - the airscribe is the way to go. And yes - practicing on a "project" ammonite to figure out the best way to complete your task is better. Roger Thanks roger. Some of the ammonites are in blocks that I can take home, but others are still connected to the larger slabs or rock. I would have to break them out. Any recomendations on an airscribe? By the way you are probably right on the formations. I have an old geologic highway map of Texas so the accuracy could be a little off. Do you have a geologic map of Tarrant County? If so I would like to know where you got it. I would like to get a copy for myself. Thanks, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest solius symbiosus Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Any recomendations on an airscribe? http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?sh...8&hl=scribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Thanks roger. Some of the ammonites are in blocks that I can take home, but others are still connected to the larger slabs or rock. I would have to break them out. Any recomendations on an airscribe? By the way you are probably right on the formations. I have an old geologic highway map of Texas so the accuracy could be a little off. Do you have a geologic map of Tarrant County? If so I would like to know where you got it. I would like to get a copy for myself. Thanks, Brian There is a thread on this forum - "Airscribe locator" where we discussed that. Best place to buy - www.Paleotools.com run by Bill Murray. Not cheap - reasonable - but the best equipment and service anywhere. Second choice - Chicago Pneumatic (you'll have to google the name for a website). Not as good but okay. Also - don't forget you're going to have to have an airsupply as well. I use a 2 gal electric compressor. Seems to be adequate for my needs but it does run all the time when I am working - a 1 gal probably wouldn't be enough. As for the geologic maps - Best deal going is Lance Hall's website http://www.geocities.com/lancelhall/fossils/index.htm Lance has done a great job for us amateurs (hell - even some pros use his maps) in taking the geologic maps and overlaying the roads. Here is an example of the Benbrook Lake area that you were working: Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceH Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 FYI, the maps are made from a modern digital road map with the Bureau of Economic Geology's maps digitally combined and adjusted using the smaller roads as the reference points. The lakes and major highways are always off or out of scale or even twisted. I have chosen not to attempt to rectify the edges of the lakes so that's why Lake Benbrook appears out of alignment. My guess is in making the state geo maps they pulled whatever outline or aerial image of whatever lake they had and just plopped it on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceH Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The change from "Goodland" to "Comache Peak-Edwards" just to the south may be based on rudistids appearing in the latter and basically non-existant in the former. A Texas geologist might be able to explain in detail better why the name change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh-Man Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 How about we start with a long masonry bit, a water bottle for lubrication and a heavy duty power drill. A little diesel and fertilizer in the hole... you can apply some "heat" that will "agitate" the ammonite so that it literally jumps out of the limestone... Uhh, safety glasses are highly recommended... OK, wait, this is how we removed tree stumps. Limestone makes excellent shrapnel so may this isn't the best idea. What is geology? "Rocks for Jocks!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxdaddy Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 The change from "Goodland" to "Comache Peak-Edwards" just to the south may be based on rudistids appearing in the latter and basically non-existant in the former. A Texas geologist might be able to explain in detail better why the name change. Thanks Lance and Roger for the info. I spent alot of my time growing further West and South so I am not sure about the name change, but I will see what I can find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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