RichW9090 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Some time ago, there was a discussion here on TFF about someone who was passing modern mammal skulls of as tar-pit specimens. Can someone remind me the details of this, or send me a private message? I'm going to be looking at a collection where I suspect some of them have been faked. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 I just looked at a collection of about 18 supposed tar pit fossils from Carpinteria and McKittrick. Every last one of the was fake, and most were misidentified as well. The "tar" finish was painted on, in some cases over the white glue used to repair the broken modern skulls. In all cases a little scraping revealed modern bone, some fairly greasy, underneath. The guy who bought them took it pretty well. I'd have been much less happy if it were me. Rich The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 such fun.... thanks for the tale, Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I just looked at a collection of about 18 supposed tar pit fossils from Carpinteria and McKittrick. Every last one of the was fake, and most were misidentified as well. The "tar" finish was painted on, in some cases over the white glue used to repair the broken modern skulls. In all cases a little scraping revealed modern bone, some fairly greasy, underneath. The guy who bought them took it pretty well. I'd have been much less happy if it were me. Rich Thanks for the follow up Rich. I was wondering about the outcome. Im sure he spent a pretty penny on those too. What a kick in the ol' coin purse. But i guess he's to blame for the majority of not researching his investments.... ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) The total he spent was quite small - that alone should have indicated to him that they couldn't possibly be actual tar pit fossils. They were variously labeled as McKittrick or Carpineria tar pits. The modern domestic goat was labeled as Harrington's extinct mountain goat, in spite of having keeled, spiral horns. One of the two black bear skulls was labeled as Arctodus. Here are pictures of some of them: Edited January 10, 2015 by RichW9090 The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squali Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) What a shame. They could have been nice specimens of modern animals. Thanks Rich. Edited January 10, 2015 by squali It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Hi Rich, I've prepped some tar pit chunks from McKittrick and Maricopa before. Yes, in real tar pit stuff the tar has impregnated the bone filling spaces inside and something as big as a bear skull would likely have a break where you could see the tar inside. Of course, that look could be faked too. As a note to others, anyone interested in a tar pit specimen needs to be familiar with the animals found there and know what the bones look like - the sizes and shapes. Any kind of bear specimen would be very rare at a tar pit site (rarer than at other sites where bears are known) so you were likely already suspicious when you saw two skulls. I thought I was lucky to see a bear astragulus for sale at Tucson a couple of years ago. Tar pit stuff tends to be very time-consuming to clean. When you see a bone end sticking out of a chunk, you need to carefully chip around it with a scalpel and/or a dental pick weakening the matrix with drops of acetone. The matrix sometimes softens and scrapes away easily but often it is hard like a rock (mixed with sand or sometimes even baked solid by a fire long ago). Usually, the rest of the bone isn't inside. At McKittrick you tend to find a lot of isolated bones, some teeth, and a few jaw sections but I did hear of someone finding a nearly-complete Tule Elk (a weird find that might have been Holocene in age - some tar pit stuff ranges into the Holocene). While going through tar chunks, I once found parts of a Panthera atrox skull (maxilla pieces, a couple of teeth and bone pieces - not enough to bother with restoring the rest). I would be suspicious of anything as big as a bear skull that looks too clean/undamaged. I've never seen anything from Carpinteria. A paleontologist once told me that the site is no longer productive or off-limits now. Jess I just looked at a collection of about 18 supposed tar pit fossils from Carpinteria and McKittrick. Every last one of the was fake, and most were misidentified as well. The "tar" finish was painted on, in some cases over the white glue used to repair the broken modern skulls. In all cases a little scraping revealed modern bone, some fairly greasy, underneath. The guy who bought them took it pretty well. I'd have been much less happy if it were me. Rich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Jess, the matrix from each of the tar pits is different, and the preservation of the bone different, as you know. It really isn't hard to spot the fakes if you know what to look for. There is an area of tar deposits on private land that has produced some material that shows up at Tucson in small amounts now, but about 10 years ago, a guy had a truck load of big chunks about 2 feet across he was trying to sell. The material was very crushed, the matrix had a lot of sand and pebbles in it which had "pit-damaged" the fossils and he apparently didn't sell much. I've not ever seen him since. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I don't recall seeing the guy with the truckload of tar but then I missed a few years of Tucson shows in the 2000's. I missed last year but am trying to set up at least a short trip this year. I was once surprised how bendable some tar is (almost like a chewy brownie) even before hitting it with acetone. Jess, the matrix from each of the tar pits is different, and the preservation of the bone different, as you know. It really isn't hard to spot the fakes if you know what to look for. There is an area of tar deposits on private land that has produced some material that shows up at Tucson in small amounts now, but about 10 years ago, a guy had a truck load of big chunks about 2 feet across he was trying to sell. The material was very crushed, the matrix had a lot of sand and pebbles in it which had "pit-damaged" the fossils and he apparently didn't sell much. I've not ever seen him since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members Debbieduluth Posted February 12, 2015 New Members Share Posted February 12, 2015 They had some of these at the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show along with many fake fossils from Morocco- My husband and I were very disappointed that these were even being allowed to be sold. It puts a pall over the entire show and makes all fossils suspect of being faked without clearly stating it is a carved or painted replica. Debbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Debbie, while there are a few (VERY few) good, honest dealers selling Morocco fossils, easily 50% of everything I saw was either completely faked, or very badly restored. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts