regainfreedom Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hi, I have recently receive these fossils from a friend. I am not sure what those are, the only thing I know is that it is from a cave in Irian Jaya. My friend says that it resembles Dickinsonia Costata which is found in Australia and the White Sea region of Russia. Irian Jaya is very near Australia. Can anyone help me with the Id of this fossil? Here's the first picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regainfreedom Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 This is the second picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regainfreedom Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 This is a picture of Dickinsonia Costata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl O'Cles Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'm pretty sure i saw someone selling one of those as a turtle once on e-bay. Although i am certain it is not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 polished cross-section of a horn coral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nicholas Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 polished cross-section of a horn coral? Seems like a reasonable guess, I assumed the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoRon Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 My first impression is horn coral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 As the only symmetry is radial, I would rule out Dickinsonia. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkfoam Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 To me it looks like a Sclartinian coral. It is a rather large singular corallite kind of like a Cyclolites sp. JKFoam The Eocene is my favorite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest solius symbiosus Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I don't know the laws and customs of Indonesia, but in western countries it is unethical to remove material from caves, and in areas that I am aware of, it is illegal. I pulled this from the New Zealand Speleological Society website, but it basically the same for any society: We will not remove any deposit, speleotherm, sub-fossil remains, flora or fauna, or any other naturally occurring thing from a cave or karst area without first obtaining permission from the administering authority. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOROPUS Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 To me it looks like a Sclartinian coral. It is a rather large singular corallite kind of like a Cyclolites sp.JKFoam I agree with you of a Scleretinian coral; in the other hand, it is quite difficult to define as Cyclolites( Exclusevely Cretaceous, and quite common in my country...), due to the fact, that it have, normally, a flat and non ornamented base, and another one, with the septa. I agree with "Dancing Darwin"that collecting fossils in caves, is not ethicall, and in most countries is an illegall action. Nevertheless, I don`t know how the fossil have get into the market. Indonesian (and Javanese) collectors, are , how to explain it...Like Moroccan ones. Normally they will say you it was collected in a cave in Irian Yaya. Perhaps 50 per cent of the times (if not more) comes from other places, just to add some "exotism"to the buyers... Nevertheless, Scleratinian coral. Cretaceous? Paleogene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkfoam Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Moropus, "I agree with you of a Scleretinian coral; in the other hand, it is quite difficult to define as Cyclolites( Exclusevely Cretaceous, and quite common in my country...), due to the fact, that it have, normally, a flat and non ornamented base, and another one, with the septa." I agree with you. I'm not saying it is a Cyclolites, just that its "kind of like" a Cyclolites. Also, I have a question for the group. When I see or hear the expression "Horn Coral" to me it implies a paleozoic rugose solitary coralite shaped like a small horn. What does that expression mean to you? Do you restrict it to a particular Order or time? JKFoam The Eocene is my favorite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 ..When I see or hear the expression "Horn Coral" to me it implies a paleozoic rugose solitary coralite shaped like a small horn. What does that expression mean to you?... That is what it means to me, but I am not a very sophisticated collector. Serious collectors of Paleozoic invertibrates may have a more specific classification. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoRon Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I bought a prehistoric elephant tooth, from Java, from a guy who said his cousin found it in a cave. When I had the fellow describe the "cave" it turns out it was a large open pit excavation. He used the word cave to describe any large hole in the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 "Also, I have a question for the group. When I see or hear the expression "Horn Coral" to me it implies a paleozoic rugose solitary coralite shaped like a small horn. What does that expression mean to you? Do you restrict it to a particular Order or time?" it depends on what the thing really turns out to be. if it turns out to be a paleozoic rugose cornucopiaoral, then that's what i meant. if on the other hand it's modernerer, then i meant "something corally that looks like a horn". we pseudoscientists have to be flexible with our naming conventions, since all the good names are taken already. in retrospect, i'd have preferred to have called that thing a cave cabochon and be done with it, but then somebody woulda been all over me about the evils of buying from jewelry stores in caves. p.s. - i actually tried to look up the geology of that area before i throwed out my SEWAG, but once i saw it'd been everything from old to volcanic, i just threw up my neurons and said, to heck with it, it's a horn coral. that's the advantage of being a fool - you don't have to worry about being correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N.AL.hunter Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Just so we all know what a cave is (Huntsville, Alabama, where I work and grew up) is the National Headquarters for the National Speleological Society, NSS, and I was a member of that organization for a few years. Well the NSS definition of a cave is any opening into the earth that has 50 feet (16 +/- m) or more length to it and has four sides (that way canyons, ravines... are excluded). That 50 ft. could be vertical or horizontal or any combination thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest solius symbiosus Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Also, I have a question for the group. When I see or hear the expression "Horn Coral" to me it implies a paleozoic rugose solitary coralite shaped like a small horn. What does that expression mean to you? Do you restrict it to a particular Order or time?JKFoam That is the implication also that I have. I think that morphologically scleractiniids cannot be horn corals since one of the primary differences between those two is the lack of a secreted base in the solitary rugosids... hence, it is a "horn". But, the confusion is one of the reasons that I prefer solitary rugosid to horn coral. Too, Palaeos(and any other reference that I have seen) refer to only rugosids as "horn" corals. The Mesozoic and later forms are referred to as "stony" corals. http://www.palaeos.com/Invertebrates/Cnidaria/Rugosa.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Just so we all know what a cave is (Huntsville, Alabama, where I work and grew up) is the National Headquarters for the National Speleological Society, NSS, and I was a member of that organization for a few years. Well the NSS definition of a cave is any opening into the earth that has 50 feet (16 +/- m) or more length to it and has four sides (that way canyons, ravines... are excluded). That 50 ft. could be vertical or horizontal or any combination thereof. four sides! ahahahahah! that's rich! everybody in the world knows that caves only have two sides - an inside and an outside. sheesh. we dint fall off a mosasaur vert yesterday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regainfreedom Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 I agree with you of a Scleretinian coral; in the other hand, it is quite difficult to define as Cyclolites( Exclusevely Cretaceous, and quite common in my country...), due to the fact, that it have, normally, a flat and non ornamented base, and another one, with the septa.I agree with "Dancing Darwin"that collecting fossils in caves, is not ethicall, and in most countries is an illegall action. Nevertheless, I don`t know how the fossil have get into the market. Indonesian (and Javanese) collectors, are , how to explain it...Like Moroccan ones. Normally they will say you it was collected in a cave in Irian Yaya. Perhaps 50 per cent of the times (if not more) comes from other places, just to add some "exotism"to the buyers... Nevertheless, Scleratinian coral. Cretaceous? Paleogene? Hi, I will try to get as much info as possible from my friend =) Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn835 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 four sides! ahahahahah! that's rich! everybody in the world knows that caves only have two sides - an inside and an outside. sheesh. we dint fall off a mosasaur vert yesterday... With rocks in my head, and fossils in my heart.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 four sides! ahahahahah! that's rich! everybody in the world knows that caves only have two sides - an inside and an outside. sheesh. we dint fall off a mosasaur vert yesterday... You tell emTracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossil_femme Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Also, I have a question for the group. When I see or hear the expression "Horn Coral" to me it implies a paleozoic rugose solitary coralite shaped like a small horn. What does that expression mean to you? Do you restrict it to a particular Order or time? Agree with your definition. "don’t you lock up something that you wanted to see fly..." chris cornell / soundgarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regainfreedom Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 I agree with you of a Scleretinian coral; in the other hand, it is quite difficult to define as Cyclolites( Exclusevely Cretaceous, and quite common in my country...), due to the fact, that it have, normally, a flat and non ornamented base, and another one, with the septa.I agree with "Dancing Darwin"that collecting fossils in caves, is not ethicall, and in most countries is an illegall action. Nevertheless, I don`t know how the fossil have get into the market. Indonesian (and Javanese) collectors, are , how to explain it...Like Moroccan ones. Normally they will say you it was collected in a cave in Irian Yaya. Perhaps 50 per cent of the times (if not more) comes from other places, just to add some "exotism"to the buyers... Nevertheless, Scleratinian coral. Cretaceous? Paleogene? Hi, I have got more info regarding this fossil, the "cave" turns out to be a quarry that produces nickel. I can't be certain about the age, it maybe from before the age of dinosaurs, maybe Devonian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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