regainfreedom Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Hi, I have just purchased this Ursus spelaeus paw fossil from a fossil shop in Singapore. The fossil is from Russia, this paw measures 30cm from the longest finger to the base of the paw. Is this a genuine fossil? I be attaching more pictures. This is the first picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regainfreedom Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Hi, I have just purchased this Ursus spelaeus paw fossil from a fossil shop in Singapore. The fossil is from Russia, this paw measures 30cm from the longest finger to the base of the paw. Is this a genuine fossil? I be attaching more pictures.This is the first picture. This is the second picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regainfreedom Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 This is the second picture. This is the picture of a claw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regainfreedom Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 This is the picture of a claw. This a close up of the bone structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regainfreedom Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 This a close up of the bone structure. This is the close up of the bone structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 This is the close up of the bone structure. Hmmm!! Appears to be elements of a bear paw. I cannot make out the articulation of the individual bones. I see that one phalanx II is missing (claw core is phalanx I). I am not sure I recognize the proximal (nearest the body center-line) bone in the articulation. The rounded surface of that bone appears to be an astragalus -- is the projecting bone the calcaneum? (These latter bones are located in the ankle.) Frankly, though these bones may be bear, they seem too gracile to be from a cave bear -- but that's just an impression. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regainfreedom Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Hmmm!! Appears to be elements of a bear paw. I cannot make out the articulation of the individual bones. I see that one phalanx II is missing (claw core is phalanx I). I am not sure I recognize the proximal (nearest the body center-line) bone in the articulation. The rounded surface of that bone appears to be an astragalus -- is the projecting bone the calcaneum? (These latter bones are located in the ankle.) Frankly, though these bones may be bear, they seem too gracile to be from a cave bear -- but that's just an impression. Hi, which of the digits is missing phalanx II? I got this link from fossilmall.com which looks identical to my specimen which has the same number of phalanx. I think my specimen is the left hind paw of Ursus speleaus. Is this a real fossil? http://www.fossilmall.com/EDCOPE_Enterpris...s/M008/M008.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Hi, which of the digits is missing phalanx II? I got this link from fossilmall.com which looks identical to my specimen which has the same number of phalanx. I think my specimen is the left hind paw of Ursus speleaus. Is this a real fossil?http://www.fossilmall.com/EDCOPE_Enterpris...s/M008/M008.htm Oops! You're right, all the phalanges are there. The link provides much clearer images, and I can see the astragalus/calcaneum articulation. You ask, "Is this a real fossil?" . . . Many or most of the bones in your articulation seem to be real. Is it complete with all the ankle bones and no replicated bones? . . . unknown. Is it a pes from a single individual, or is it a composite? . . . unknown. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regainfreedom Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Oops! You're right, all the phalanges are there. The link provides much clearer images, and I can see the astragalus/calcaneum articulation. You ask, "Is this a real fossil?" . . . Many or most of the bones in your articulation seem to be real. Is it complete with all the ankle bones and no replicated bones? . . . unknown. Is it a pes from a single individual, or is it a composite? . . . unknown. When I bought it from the seller, he claims that it is from the same individual as the size of the bones are symmetrical toI each other despite some differences in colouration. I immediately brought it over to my friend who owns a shop that sells fossils and he too gave me the same explanation. I am still not very sure whether this is a composite or from the same individual. The same web link states that it is a hind paw. LOL! I am not very sure. By the way, is it possible to know whether this is a left or right paw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 When I was in Tucson, I saw two complete articulated skelitons of cave bear. Then there were several fossil dealers that had loads of cave bear bones of all kinds all from Russia. Are these cave bear bones common? Why is there so many of them? Just wondering. RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 When I was in Tucson, I saw two complete articulated skelitons of cave bear. Then there were several fossil dealers that had loads of cave bear bones of all kinds all from Russia. Are these cave bear bones common? Why is there so many of them? Just wondering.RB the bones were considered so common at one point that they were used for fertilizer. apparently those bears were largely herbivorous so didn't depend on available prey to proliferate like carnivores, so there were probably herds of them. they had to raise their paws and wait to be acknowledged before growling so as to keep from interrupting each other, there were so many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 When I bought it from the seller, he claims that it is from the same individual as the size of the bones are symmetrical toI each other despite some differences in colouration. I immediately brought it over to my friend who owns a shop that sells fossils and he too gave me the same explanation. I am still not very sure whether this is a composite or from the same individual. The same web link states that it is a hind paw. LOL! I am not very sure. By the way, is it possible to know whether this is a left or right paw? The articulation represents a RIGHT hind foot ("pes"). The front foot ("manus') would not include the astragalus and calcaneum. I don't have a cave bear calcaneum, but here a couple of articulations you can compare with: http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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