College Search

[Sharktoothguy11222]

Yes, I know, I haven't been posting around the forum as much, and that is my fault as much as it is the school's fault. However, as junior year is coming to an end soon, I have been considering what kinds of colleges I want to go to and what to major in. I like paleontology, and want to pursue it as a career, (vertebrate paleontology, to be more specific) but my parents want me to go into pharmacy , which I don't care too much for.

So anyway, as to the topic of this post, I was doing some looking around, and stumbled across some posts online that centered around paleontology careers, and saw Penn State as being a possible choice. I looked around, and it seems ok, but I really don't ant to move out of state (I live in New York) for college, even though I plan on moving to Arizona after I finish everything. And so, as I continue my aimless rambling, I wonder, what better place to find out than on the Fossil Forum!

In short,

If its of any use, I am interested in sharks (hence my name), so something like Paleoichthyology would be nice, but I am also interested in dinosaurs, particularly ceratopsians and pachycephalosaurs.

OH, and while I'm rambling on and on, here's a video I stumbled upon while looking for careers in paleontology. It's the SVP (Society of Vertebrate Paleontology) Enjoy! HERE

[Auspex]

A friend of mine is a pharmacist at a hospital in PA. His shift is seven nights on, seven days off. It pays very well, and has allowed him to pursue his passion (birding) to the upper levels of accomplishment. Just a thought

[ashcraft]

If you really want to pursue a career in paleo, do a google search for scientific papers on what interests you, shark evolution, whatever. You will get several hits, look for the lead author and what school they are associated with, and that will give you a starting place for colleges that specialize in that type of work. This is more applicable to grad students, but will also get you started in undergrad.

Brent Ashcraft

[Guest solius symbiosus]

This is more applicable to grad students, but will also get you started in undergrad.

What he said. Work on getting your under graduate degree. You still have a few years to worry about a college for graduate work.

[Guest N.AL.hunter]

Columbia is good for Paleontology and it is in New York. But I agree with your parents that being a Pharmacist is a good choice and you'll then have the kind of income that allows you to pursue you interest in paleontology.

[Guest Nicholas]

Columbia is good for Paleontology and it is in New York. But I agree with your parents that being a Pharmacist is a good choice and you'll then have the kind of income that allows you to pursue you interest in paleontology.

I agree with that, Pharmacist is a job which will enable you to work anywhere as well. It has a huge safety net and nice benefits.

[Sharktoothguy11222]

I agree with that, Pharmacist is a job which will enable you to work anywhere as well. It has a huge safety net and nice benefits.

Pharmacy does pay well, but I've seen what my parents do, and I really wouldn't like to go into that profession. Maybe I'll do both pharamcy and paleontology in college, which is what my parents kind of agree with.

Thanks for everyone's help so far!

[Ramo]

Dr. Kenshu Shimada is at DePaul University. He has written as many papers on sharks as anyone I know, and he is very nice, and easy to get along with.

[Mike Owens]

Listen to your parents. Definitely go with the medical field. If you don't like pharmaceutical there are many more opportunities there. For example: Nuclear Medicene is an overlooked field that pays quite well. Add a minor in computers & your set for life. If, after you get your degree, & you still have your passion for fossils, you can take a night course in what interests you without having to take all the other boring subjects that go along with a degree in Paleontology. Also, unless you gratuate in the top 10%, job opportunities are few & far between in this field.

Mike

[KevinG]

....... Maybe I'll do both pharamcy and paleontology in college, which is what my parents kind of agree with.

Thanks for everyone's help so far!

And if they are footing the bill, you can't go wrong with that.

No one says you have to be a full time pharmacist after you graduate. You will have enough money to survive and persue a second career.

For love or money and you have the opportunity to have both.

Good luck!

[Guest solius symbiosus]

There seems to be a misconception that one can obtain an undergraduate degree in paleontology. Perhaps, I am wrong, but I am unaware of any university offering such a program. Paleontology is a focus of graduate, doctoral programs.

[Guest N.AL.hunter]

http://www.universities.com/edu/Bachelor_d...University.html

[Boesse]

Go for your passion - go for paleontology. If its what interests you, and you honestly can't see yourself being a pharmacist, then screw pharmacy.

Solius - Montana State University offers the only undergraduate degree in Paleontology.

"Also, unless you gratuate in the top 10%, job opportunities are few & far between in this field."

This is actually a bit incorrect - there isn't really any 'top 10%' in vert paleo - most of the time you can't get a job straight after your Bachelor's. Usually, you need to get a master's and a Ph.D. as well, and there isn't really any 'top 10%' among paleo/evolutionary biology Ph.D.'s, simply because there aren't enough graduating at the exact same time in order to actually meaningfully rank them.

What determines whether or not you get a job in vert paleo is your CV, and it is specifically related to the number of publications, grants awarded, previous jobs/teaching experience, and relevant field experience.

If you're motivated to do original/creative paleontologic research, your chances of getting a job are just fine. Follow your interests; if you can afford the schooling, then do it.

Hell, after all, this is why I'm a paleo Master's student.

Bobby

[Guest N.AL.hunter]

"Montana State University offers the only undergraduate degree in Paleontology."

Not accurate, see above.

[Guest solius symbiosus]

http://www.universities.com/edu/Bachelor_d...University.html

You found one! Anyone know of any other institutions(other than MSU) offering a similar program? I have never heard of such things.

[Mike Owens]

Go for your passion - go for paleontology. If its what interests you, and you honestly can't see yourself being a pharmacist, then screw pharmacy.

Solius - Montana State University offers the only undergraduate degree in Paleontology.

"Also, unless you gratuate in the top 10%, job opportunities are few & far between in this field."

This is actually a bit incorrect - there isn't really any 'top 10%' in vert paleo - most of the time you can't get a job straight after your Bachelor's. Usually, you need to get a master's and a Ph.D. as well, and there isn't really any 'top 10%' among paleo/evolutionary biology Ph.D.'s, simply because there aren't enough graduating at the exact same time in order to actually meaningfully rank them.

What determines whether or not you get a job in vert paleo is your CV, and it is specifically related to the number of publications, grants awarded, previous jobs/teaching experience, and relevant field experience.

If you're motivated to do original/creative paleontologic research, your chances of getting a job are just fine. Follow your interests; if you can afford the schooling, then do it.

Hell, after all, this is why I'm a paleo Master's student.

Bobby

My statement was meant to say: If you were not the very best in your field, the odds on getting a good position would be limited, as the top jobs are few & far between. You have to wait till someone retires or dies to move up the ladder. Hope this better explains my intent with the "10%" statement.

Mike

[2gould]

Do what you are passionate about, plain and simple. Do NOT go into a career simply because it may pay well and you might be able to use some of that money to pursue your hobby or true interest. That is not a good strategy. I know many people in my profession who went into it for the money thinking that the lifestyle would enable them to what they wanted in their spare time, and now they are absolutely miserable. You will spend the majority of the day at your job - make sure it is something you love to do. A couple hours a week devoted to your passion will not compensate for the 70 hours a week you spend at a job you hate. Again, do what you are passionate about!!

[Auspex]

http://www.universities.com/edu/Bachelor_d...University.html

That makes me want to reinvent myself! I actually miss the structured learning of formal education...

[Sharktoothguy11222]

Thanks for everyones help. Now if only I can convince my parents if I can go to college in Arizona .......

Seriously though, thanks all!

[Hawkeye]

What I would do if I were you is do a Google search for jobs in paleontology. See who is hiring, what skills are required and what the current pay is going to be. Talk to Bobby (above) and find out how hard he works and what he gets paid. An undergraduated degree in paleontology might get you an assistantship or a museum position, neither of which pay very well. I'm not saying you have to be rich to be happy, but I was poor graduate student for 5 years and a poor postdoc for a few more after that; I loved my job, but being poor sucked!

There was another similar thread earlier which suggested a degree in geology which might put you roughly in the field of paleontology and would offer better job opportunities.

[tracer]

please allow my dissenting opinion, but skip it if you don't need the lecture. i feel like the question would have been better addressed through being posted somewhere else. i also feel like the question would be better addressed through being posed to guidance counselors at high schools and colleges. asking a bunch of fossil lovers if you should study paleontology or pharmacy is kind of an i'll-get-the-answer-i-want-here-for-sure game you're playing with yourself. you're looking for affirmation, not advice.

america has its roots in self-actualization, but that is somewhat deceptive. a substantial percentage of the employment in the world for which people will pay is not work that people would normally choose to do. so a large percentage of people are either going to do work that isn't their first choice, or hope others will give them food. most young people who are thinking about what they want to do have low income needs at the time. they are not used to having big wants or big bills, and they don't have spouses and kids and concerns regarding money. it is frequently difficult for a college student to conceptualize "needing" a lot to be happy at any future point. while it is true that money isn't everything - lack of money is nothing.

i find it interesting that at such a young age, you have only two paths from which to choose. that seems unnecessarily constrained.

everything in life seems to involve compromise. what are you willing to give up? some have nice homes, nice cars, and few money worries, but don't love their work. some love their work, but have little to show for it and have to worry about keeping their work and paying their bills, or maybe working two jobs and a bunch of overtime. some don't work at all and have a blast until they end up living under a bridge. some have to work in their seventies, until they have health problems and end up losing all they own. some retire in their fifties and play a lot of golf.

look at the big picture. what all will you want, what all will you want to avoid, and how do you get there?

by the way - academia is a refuge from the world for some. they linger for years, running up debt, and cutting into their productive work lives and delaying their eventual financial freedom. if i make half a million and put five years into a pension plan or 401K while you're spending a couple of hundred borrowed grand and delaying your entry into the workforce for five years, then you've got a lot of catching up to do with those initials after your name, and hopefully it's been worth it, from a financial point of view. if not, hopefully you never intended it to be, and it's worth it from a self-actualization point of view.

research the heck out of the paths you potentially wish to follow. don't glamorize and fantasize - coldly and realistically evaluate all the good and bad points of each, and then make your decision.

but ask yourself too why your parents are recommending a certain course of action. what do they know that you don't? how are they thinking? some parents seem to be pretty smart sometimes.

[Sharktoothguy11222]

please allow my dissenting opinion, but skip it if you don't need the lecture. i feel like the question would have been better addressed through being posted somewhere else. i also feel like the question would be better addressed through being posed to guidance counselors at high schools and colleges. asking a bunch of fossil lovers if you should study paleontology or pharmacy is kind of an i'll-get-the-answer-i-want-here-for-sure game you're playing with yourself. you're looking for affirmation, not advice.

america has its roots in self-actualization, but that is somewhat deceptive. a substantial percentage of the employment in the world for which people will pay is not work that people would normally choose to do. so a large percentage of people are either going to do work that isn't their first choice, or hope others will give them food. most young people who are thinking about what they want to do have low income needs at the time. they are not used to having big wants or big bills, and they don't have spouses and kids and concerns regarding money. it is frequently difficult for a college student to conceptualize "needing" a lot to be happy at any future point. while it is true that money isn't everything - lack of money is nothing.

i find it interesting that at such a young age, you have only two paths from which to choose. that seems unnecessarily constrained.

everything in life seems to involve compromise. what are you willing to give up? some have nice homes, nice cars, and few money worries, but don't love their work. some love their work, but have little to show for it and have to worry about keeping their work and paying their bills, or maybe working two jobs and a bunch of overtime. some don't work at all and have a blast until they end up living under a bridge. some have to work in their seventies, until they have health problems and end up losing all they own. some retire in their fifties and play a lot of golf.

look at the big picture. what all will you want, what all will you want to avoid, and how do you get there?

by the way - academia is a refuge from the world for some. they linger for years, running up debt, and cutting into their productive work lives and delaying their eventual financial freedom. if i make half a million and put five years into a pension plan or 401K while you're spending a couple of hundred borrowed grand and delaying your entry into the workforce for five years, then you've got a lot of catching up to do with those initials after your name, and hopefully it's been worth it, from a financial point of view. if not, hopefully you never intended it to be, and it's worth it from a self-actualization point of view.

research the heck out of the paths you potentially wish to follow. don't glamorize and fantasize - coldly and realistically evaluate all the good and bad points of each, and then make your decision.

but ask yourself too why your parents are recommending a certain course of action. what do they know that you don't? how are they thinking? some parents seem to be pretty smart sometimes.

I think the purpose of this thread got a little distorted. My main question was are there any good schools that I can go to, preferably in New York, that can offer degrees in paleontology. I did mention my parent wish to be pharmacists in passing. My purpose posting here was not to gather a bunch of biased opinions and make myself feel happier and say to my parent, "Here, look what they (Fossil Forum ppl) said!". It was to get information regarding possible school choices, or paths I could take, but then somewhere down the line, it got lost into pharamacy vortex

I have been thinking about it, but if I become a pharmacist, I know I'll be miserable, but if I make a career out of what I love, then at least I can be happy about that. But what do I know....

[tracer]

quote from bobby's post -

"What determines whether or not you get a job in vert paleo is your CV, and it is specifically related to the number of publications, grants awarded, previous jobs/teaching experience, and relevant field experience."

this is kinda where i was going with the suggestion to carefully research career paths. i always felt that i would have loved teaching at a major university. i also believe i would have been good at it. but i didn't like or have any interest in the "real job" of a university professor. i was asked to be on an undergraduate curriculum committee with some professors and ended up knowing some of them pretty well, and it seemed that many of them complained about the "publish or perish" competitive environment to maintain standing with the university. bring in the grant money and/or bring recognition and status to the university. i just liked knowledge, learning, and teaching. but i was there, and i saw the issue from up close, and learned that it was not for me personally, and moved on.

and as much as i love fossils, and think it would be extremely cool to introduce myself to others as a paleontologist and go around finding cool stuff, i really don't think i would enjoy or be good at all at being a real paleontologist. i'm not configured right for it. maybe in my next incarnation. but i've also thought about being a beagle.

[Sharktoothguy11222]

quote from bobby's post -

"What determines whether or not you get a job in vert paleo is your CV, and it is specifically related to the number of publications, grants awarded, previous jobs/teaching experience, and relevant field experience."

this is kinda where i was going with the suggestion to carefully research career paths. i always felt that i would have loved teaching at a major university. i also believe i would have been good at it. but i didn't like or have any interest in the "real job" of a university professor. i was asked to be on an undergraduate curriculum committee with some professors and ended up knowing some of them pretty well, and it seemed that many of them complained about the "publish or perish" competitive environment to maintain standing with the university. bring in the grant money and/or bring recognition and status to the university. i just liked knowledge, learning, and teaching. but i was there, and i saw the issue from up close, and learned that it was not for me personally, and moved on.

and as much as i love fossils, and think it would be extremely cool to introduce myself to others as a paleontologist and go around finding cool stuff, i really don't think i would enjoy or be good at all at being a real paleontologist. i'm not configured right for it. maybe in my next incarnation. but i've also thought about being a beagle.

Publishing would be difficult, but then again, there is plenty of stuff still out there to learn about, new finds and species to be published, etc. I think I would love teaching too. If it wasn't about the money, I'd be Biology teacher.

I might regret it a little, but I'm pretty sure that I'd be happier with paleontology as my career plan than pharmacy. Anyway, I guess I can always do a double-major, and do both pharmacy and paleontology. (School will never end lol)

[Hawkeye]

look at the big picture. what all will you want, what all will you want to avoid, and how do you get there?

by the way - academia is a refuge from the world for some. they linger for years, running up debt, and cutting into their productive work lives and delaying their eventual financial freedom. if i make half a million and put five years into a pension plan or 401K while you're spending a couple of hundred borrowed grand and delaying your entry into the workforce for five years, then you've got a lot of catching up to do with those initials after your name, and hopefully it's been worth it, from a financial point of view. if not, hopefully you never intended it to be, and it's worth it from a self-actualization point of view.

research the heck out of the paths you potentially wish to follow. don't glamorize and fantasize - coldly and realistically evaluate all the good and bad points of each, and then make your decision.

but ask yourself too why your parents are recommending a certain course of action. what do they know that you don't? how are they thinking? some parents seem to be pretty smart sometimes.

Tracer, you hit the nail on the head. I've taught quite a few undergraduates over the years and they always thought they knew what they wnated or wanted to do until reality came crashing in on them. Paleontology is a world of academia, you can't just go out and work at the paeontology office. I've been in academia for 15 years but the reality of the economy, the dearth of available public funding, and the cutthroat nature of being in a field where you get grants and publications or you lose your job made me realize just how hard I had to work over those 15 years and how little money I actually made for all of that work. Some people thrive in that environment, others wither. Go to a college you like and pursue a career that will get you a job. If after 4 years of college you still want to be a paleontologist, get good grades, score well on the GRE and go to grad school. An undergraduate degree in paleontology is probably not going to get you too many job interviews. Take a couple classes like comparative vertebrate anatomy or geology. Paleontology will be a lot more like those classes than it will be like digging for dinosaurs on the weekend.

I'm not trying to discourage you, only to bring a little bit of reality from my personal experience. Heck, my mom still thinks I'm going to be a photographer for National Geographic.