Help With Lc Mammal(?) Toe Bone

[tracer]

According to Harry and i think even Boesse it has aquatic species written all over it but since it doesnt fit any known species from that area or any other it seems it may be a new species

ok, then, a chupanewbra with a snorkel

[Gatorman]

hahhahaha

[Harry Pristis]

I respect the knowledge of this group more than you can imagine. In fact, the more I read the various threads, the more humble I feel in my ignorance of anatomy, physiology, and paleontology. I am not sure how I feel about the debate over this bone except I no longer feel totally stupid for not being able to ID it. If Chupacabra doesn't fit, maybe fetal Yeti? I almost had a "new" specie of peccary (one tooth doth not a new specie make), but this bone.. so far I am prone to believe either new to the area, or pathological. OK.. I am HOPING it is something really cool... but I truly would settle for an ID.

I think that the value of a mystery object is that it focuses the mind. A genuine attempt to solve the mystery forces the collector to pay attention to details that are only vaguely apprehended day-to-day. I am learning. It's toe bones and metapodials in this case, but there have been many such learning opportunities during the years I have been collecting. So, thank you for giving us a challenge with your mystery fossil.

I think it is premature to think of this bone as representing a "new species." The odds favor it being a known species even if its limb bones are rarely found. For the moment, we can only speculate from its morphology and eliminate as many possibilities as possible. It's probably not a carnivore, certainly not a cat. If I were to take that bone to the museum to use the comparative collection, one possibility I would like to eliminate is otter.

I wish I could find an image of the digits of a hawksbill turtle (Eretmochelys imbricata), which is about the right size and has two claws on each flipper. The presence of claws may indicate a rigid toe with the sort of grooved articular surface we see here. But, that's just speculation.

Here's a line-drawing of a cat's foot that should help eliminate the cat possibility.

[Auspex]

<Bring the picture forward to facilitate the discussion>

[Boesse]

Hey Harry,

I've seen some otter and other mustelid elements, and I think you can probably eliminate otter. Plus, I don't think things like Enhydritherium have a fossil record north of FL.

Bobby

[Harry Pristis]

Hey Harry,

I've seen some otter and other mustelid elements, and I think you can probably eliminate otter. Plus, I don't think things like Enhydritherium have a fossil record north of FL.

Bobby

Thank you, Bobby!

Another vertebrate collector we haven't heard from is 'Fruitbat'. How about it, Joe . . . what do you suppose this mystery bone is?

[bmorefossil]

Hey Harry,

I've seen some otter and other mustelid elements, and I think you can probably eliminate otter. Plus, I don't think things like Enhydritherium have a fossil record north of FL.

Bobby

hmmm north of Fl well that would be a bit of a stretch

[bj aurora]

It seems the field is being narrowed, and I am glad I could provide a challenge to the group. I have to admit, while the snorkling chupacabra sounds interesting, I will be happy with an uncommon specimen from a more common animal.

Just for the record, I just LOVE Tracer's sense of humor!

[Phoenixflood]

Just for reference Cat Foot

[Auspex]

Just for reference

Sort of similar (I guess footbones are footbones), but not as compressed.

What kind of cat is the reference pic of?

[Phoenixflood]

Sort of similar (I guess footbones are footbones), but not as compressed.

What kind of cat is the reference pic of?

I have no clue auspex, it's the only good skeletal structure I saw for a cat Don't know which one.

Yes, the bones do look similar and I agree her bone is much thinner but the overall shape of the bone seems to be close. I would say it looks much like the bone right next to the claw.

[Auspex]

...I would say it looks much like the bone right next to the claw.

In a lot of ways, but the proximal articulation surface is all wrong (unless it is badly eroded, which does not seem to be the case).

[tracer]

In a lot of ways, but the proximal articulation surface is all wrong (unless it is badly eroded, which does not seem to be the case).

from my analysis of this ongoing identification issue, i've decided that the toeger (cross between a finger and toe) is from a missing link between people and elephant seals. film at eleven. not.

[Harry Pristis]

For what it's worth, here an excerpt from an article on Puijila darwini, the newly discovered four-legged seal relative from the Canadian Miocene:

"The remarkably preserved skeleton of Puijila had heavy limbs, indicative of well developed muscles, and flattened phalanges which suggests that the feet were webbed, but not flippers. This animal was likely adept at both swimming and walking on land," said Mary Dawson, curator emeritus of Carnegie Museum of Natural History in Pittsburgh. "For swimming it paddled with both front and hind limbs. Puijila is the evolutionary evidence we have been lacking for so long." [emphasis added]

[Auspex]

^

Your point that the form suggests a semi-aquatic mammal is well taken, and well made.

Also, Lee Creek is, after all, a marine deposit. Narrowing down the search might not make it easy, but it might make it easier.

[bj aurora]

I was all set to accept a felis chasing birds and wandering too close to shore, or a flash flood victim, but I have to agree that the bone is more compressed than the one noted in the available photo. I have also been "massaging" (read: exploring) my extant cats' feet, much to their dismay, and they too feel less compressed. I noticed Fruitbat hasn't been heard from, so I hope he will join the discussion with any ideas. The search continues!