BobC Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Hey guys. Although most of the echinoids I collect are obviously Phymosomas, Loriolas and heart urchins, I have one guy that looks really different--the main difference is that he has four rows of pores rather than two, and the bumps on him are large and more spread out. This urchin was found in Salado, Texas. Here is a link to a vid I made of him: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Could it be a Tetragramma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 You know mommabetts there is a very good website that says having four rows of pores is a sign of a Tetragramma, but other people say it is the perforated tubercles that are the identifying feature, so I have no idea. When I get home tonight I'll take some still photos of it to help with identification: http://www.chalk.discoveringfossils.co.uk/...20vs%20poly.htm I also found what I think is a Giniopygus in an Austin quarry so I'm post pics of it tonight. I also found about 200 tiny, TINY regular urchins at a park in Austin--they are just a couple of centimeters big, and the largest one is about a quarter of the size of a dime. I'll post the pics tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Nice YouTube Channel, I wish I could help you with your Echinonids but I know NOTHING about them at all. I'm sure someone will be able help tough. I've subscribed to your channel as a fellow fossil supporter and for future reference in the case I collect some echionids of my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 Thanks Nick--the problem with identifying things online is I see so many misidentified photos online. My friend Linda, who has been hunting since the 70's (I've only been fossil hunting for about a year), agrees that there is no reliable one-stop place to identify these guys online. Some of the guys here post extremely detailed descriptions but honestly it's usually a bit over my head. I'm a video game artist--I just don't havee the paleontological background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Thanks Nick--the problem with identifying things online is I see so many misidentified photos online. My friend Linda, who has been hunting since the 70's (I've only been fossil hunting for about a year), agrees that there is no reliable one-stop place to identify these guys online. Some of the guys here post extremely detailed descriptions but honestly it's usually a bit over my head. I'm a video game artist--I just don't havee the paleontological background. Trust me I know how that is I have finds from my last trip to IN who have been looked over by many would be identifiers, most we have a reasonable idea of but some just have too many options and not enough fossil or detail on the fossil. I mostly work with upper carboniferous fossils here and the government site which is supposed to be the key to identifying all the fossils has failed me more than once. Luckily I have made some great connections on this forum with expert knowledge on the subject. I wish you luck in your id's inverts are tough in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 Yeah--all I can say for sure is that the urchin I pointed out in the film is very different from the four main groups I usually find. The rows of pores are obviously much wider than the Phymosomas and again, there are four rows rather than two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy1971 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Here are some websites that may help identifying your echinoids. Sorry if you already know them. Hope it helps. Echinoid Galleries CLICK HERE Natural History Museum Echinoid Directory CLICK HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpbowden Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Could it be a Tetragramma? That's what it is, there is more than one type of that critter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Yeah--all I can say for sure is that the urchin I pointed out in the film is very different from the four main groups I usually find. The rows of pores are obviously much wider than the Phymosomas and again, there are four rows rather than two. Hi Even you are moving the urchin that you are showing you are having a Tetragramma. Pun intended post photos please http://www.mbfossilcrabs.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpbowden Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I gave you the CD book that has all the info in it. Or did I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 Hey Pat! Holy snarge I totally forgot you gave me that CD! It must have fallen under the seat of my car--I'll dig it out after work and check it out. I guess I was reticent to call it a Tetragramma because two of my fossil hunting friends--who have been collecting for decades and know way more than I--told me they'd only found one or two tetragrammas in all their years, and said if I'd found four or five in one year it would be "extraordinary." hey Pat I got permission to go on a guy's property in Florence where I found two of the Tetragrammas and I am working on getting into another one of the quarries--maybe you can tag along! It is getting hotter than hell out there, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpbowden Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Sounds good if they ever shut down the firin' range at the base thats a great place, but a while back the blew up a bunch of contractors. I walked onto a live minefield and did not know it, they were all covered with coffee cans with a rock on top. Wow, kind of like old times, I went home and got new undies and never went back. Yes I have seen death many times and still my wife keeps tryin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Mine's? Cool did you collect one? I would love a mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 I remember you mentioning that firing range. Pat. Is that closer to Killeen? Seems like I recall driving by one when I was prowling around out there. It had warning signs all over theplace saying you would get blown up if you went on the property! That would seriously impede my fossil collecting and we can't have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpbowden Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Mine's? Cool did you collect one? I would love a mine I can go on the base, but don't anymore, there have been some tense moments there and no more for me. No I took the rock off the can and looked in side, there was a little thing sticking up that looked familiar. As I reached for it, a cold feeling came over me as I put the can and rock back. I had seen them before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Yeah DON"T TOUCH the little button on top! That's what makes it go boom but you can take a knife and about 3 inches out from that stick it in the ground and pry it up and then you need to find something to secure the button so it cant go down and then ship it to me I have a friend in england i wanna send it to with a timer attached to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceH Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I'm thinking some species of Goniopygus but I'm not an echspert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceH Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Hey with fossil videos it's helpful to throw in some still closeups throughout the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Hey Lance--Unfortunately when you focus with a digital cam you are stuck with what you focused on. If you move something closer to the cam you get blurriness. I have a goniopygous and this guy is way bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Murphy Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 BobC: I could not really see the features of the test on the unknown echinoid very clearly and really cannot identify it properly from the film. As a result, identification would only be a guess. Lance is right. Inserting clearer photographs in the film would make it more effective. I have seen some of the Phototube videos with inserted magnified still photographs. Greater resolution of key features can then be observed. The presence of a flattened test and polyporous (biserial) ambulacral plates would indicate either a Pseudodiadematidae or a Phymosomatidae. If the tubercles are not perforate but crenulate, the echinoid would indicate Phymosomatidae (most likely Phymosoma sp.) while perforate, crenulate tubercles would indicate Pseudodiadematidae (Tetragramma sp.). Uniserial pore pairs in the ambulacra and perforate and crenulate tubercles would indicate Loriola sp. Since you noted the presence of biserial pore pairs, it could not be Loriola sp., nor could it be Goniopygus sp. which is an arbacioid with simple pore zones. The size also eliminates both Loriola sp. and Goniopygus sp. Goniopygus sp. tests are subconical to subhemispherical. It would appear that the echinoid is either Phymosoma sp. or Tetragramma sp. Both forms have biserial pore pairs, at least in part ( at least adapically) and have two or more tubercles per interambulacral plate. Perforations of the tubercles would be the primary identifier. Generally, Tetragramma sp. has a greater number of tubercles in the interambulacra and the mamelon and boss are smaller on the tubercles of Tetragramma sp. If possible, I would like to see a better close-up of the characters of the ambulacral plates, the pore zones and the tubercles. I would then feel better about offering a description. Regards, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 I think this is a Goniopygous--the one marked quarry. The other guys are the tiny urchins I found hundreds of in a park in Austin. Can anyone tell what species they are? That is a dime in the photo--not a quarter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 oops--here are the tiny regular urchins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Mike--you are the man. I really appreciate you taking the time to ID this stuff. I will take a still pic of the mystery guy tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpbowden Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 It might be tetragramma malbosii, but I would have to see it close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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