Manticocerasman Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 does anyone know when the first predatory gastropods appeared? I have some Mississippian Brachiopods with holes that are very similar to gastropod predation, but I don’t find any information on it. Anny feedback on this subject is welcome. growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Looks like a predation bore hole to me. This paper says the first known evidence is from the Silurian. https://experts.umich.edu/en/publications/a-trace-fossil-on-a-silurian-bivalve-evidence-of-predatory-boring Very uncommon in the paleozoic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticocerasman Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 thanks for the info tmaier I have a few other brachiopods like this, all from the same location. growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 In my experience with predation holes like this, one specific location will get hammered by the boring predators and other areas show no signs of it. I have never found it in paleozoic formations, though. I've seen Pliocene deposits where the rate of bored shells was about 20% or more. Quite a high kill rate for one predation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Cameron, B. (1967) Oldest carnivorous gastropod borings, found in Trentonian (Middle Ordovician) brachiopods. Journal of Paleontology, 41(1):147-150 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticocerasman Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 In my experience with predation holes like this, one specific location will get hammered by the boring predators and other areas show no signs of it. I have never found it in paleozoic formations, though. I've seen Pliocene deposits where the rate of bored shells was about 20% or more. Quite a high kill rate for one predation. They are indeed common in the Pliocene deposits in my area to. But it was the first time a saw them on a brachiopod and in the paleozoic. growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I remember reading years ago that gastropods that drilled into mollusks either appeared or became common in the Cretaceous. How do researchers distinguish between a shell that has been drilled by a gastropod and one that just has a rather neat hole in it? A researcher associated with the Florida Museum of Natural History is working on this - examples of mollusks and brachiopods that show predation by gastropods and I vaguely recall that all his examples were from South America and no older than the Jurassic. That's not to say that he didn't recognize older specimens. Those ware just the ones he collected. does anyone know when the first predatory gastropods appeared? I have some Mississippian Brachiopods with holes that are very similar to gastropod predation, but I don’t find any information on it. Anny feedback on this subject is welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 We discussed this topic several months ago. Here is the thread. Kevin, you even posted the same brachiopod photo there. In post 18 I linked to some articles that suggested alternative hole-makers besides gastropods. The problem is that known families of hole-boring gastropods did not evolve until the Triassic. Don 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticocerasman Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 We discussed this topic several months ago. Here is the thread. Kevin, you even posted the same brachiopod photo there. In post 18 I linked to some articles that suggested alternative hole-makers besides gastropods. The problem is that known families of hole-boring gastropods did not evolve until the Triassic. Don Don, I've seen the link, but apparently I got some contradictions in my information’s and nothing conclusive about this ( see the paper from Cameron, B. (1967) posted by piranha), so I wanted to know for certain if I missed something. Apparently the predatory borings in the Paleozoic seem really controversial. That is why I started a new thread in the hope to find extra information. Is it safe to assume that these are indeed predatory borings but not from gastropods? I presume we will probably never now what made those holes…. But I’ll keep looking for clues, I hope I find more specimens like this next time I visit that spot. growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I would not be so pessimistic as to assume we can never know what the hole-makers were. I suspect the microstructure of the edges of the hole would show traces of the radula if they were made by rasping, as opposed to being dissolved by acid. However it is important to keep in mind that a number of organisms bore into a living substrate for reasons other than predation. For example, virtually every large Grewingkia coral (abundant in the Upper Ordovician Cincinnatian and Red River formations) have numerous Trypanites borings, and these were clearly not made to feed on the coral as identical borings are also common in lithified sediment such as hardgrounds (see photos in the link). Such a borer might on rare occasion mistake a shell for a more suitable substrate, or it might penetrate shells that are buried in lithified sediment. Don 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticocerasman Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Some of the observations I’ve made is that the 3 specimens I found are al from the same brachiopod species (I’ve collected over 12 different species at this location ) and it is also the brachiopod with a relatively thin shell compared to the other species. The sizes of the borings vary from 1 to 3mm in diameter. I’ve found some rare bivalves at that location, but none with borings. Next time I’ll go there I hope I’ll find some extra specimens, it might get really interesting if I find more and they all turn out to be the same brachiopods. Now I got to little information. growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Interesting post. RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) I have the Bromley "round holes"(article,but the pics are bordering on totally UNinformative meanwhile: http://members.iinet.net/~glrmc/RMC%201968%20Predators%20of%20Bivalved%20Molluscs%20-%20Palaeo3%20-%204,%2029-65.PDF Edited May 25, 2016 by doushantuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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