lordpiney Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 i found what i think is a rhino vert, earlier in a creek bed in central jersey. i usually only find cretaceous fossils in this particular creek, so i was pleasantly surprised to see this under an overhang. let me know what you all think. sorry for the crappy cel phone pics...i promise i'll get better ones up just as soon as i find the camera cable. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefootgirl Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I have no idea what that is. I do think its friggin cool though!! Man that thing is huge, way to go!!! In formal logic, a contradiction is the signal of defeat: but in the evolution of real knowledge, it marks the first step in progress toward victory. Alfred North Whithead 'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 well, it's clearly an axis vertebrae from the neck of a fairly large mammal. didn't really find enough comparative pics online to say about the rhino part of the equation. another vert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitviper Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 that is very impressive! I'm in NJ, can I ask where you collect? Big brook is where I've been going, I'm new to this, so I'm always looking for new places. "Nothing happens in contradiction to nature, only to what we know of it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 i found what i think is a rhino vert, earlier in a creek bed in central jersey. i usually only find cretaceous fossils in this particular creek, so i was pleasantly surprised to see this under an overhang. let me know what you all think. sorry for the crappy cel phone pics...i promise i'll get better ones up just as soon as i find the camera cable. lol. Hmmm. Interesting find. It appears to be the axis vertebra of some large animal, but NOT a rhino and not an entelodont. The articulation (in image #3 it looks like an apron below the bone projection on the anterior of the vert) does not match the conformation of two species of Miocene rhino, nor does it match the entelodont, Daeodon. Sooo . . . that narrows it down to some other large animal. And, don't rule out Pleistocene-to-Recent critters like bovids. Let us know what you find out. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Very nice find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj aurora Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Beautiful vert you have there.. nice job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy 55 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 That is a nice vert , what ever it is from. It's my bone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 yeah, it really does have character. i like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordpiney Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 Hmmm. Interesting find. It appears to be the axis vertebra of some large animal, but NOT a rhino and not an entelodont.The articulation (in image #3 it looks like an apron below the bone projection on the anterior of the vert) does not match the conformation of two species of Miocene rhino, nor does it match the entelodont, Daeodon. Sooo . . . that narrows it down to some other large animal. And, don't rule out Pleistocene-to-Recent critters like bovids. Let us know what you find out. hey harry...i was actually thinking woolly rhino, not the miocene appalachian rhino's that were found here. here's a couple pics i found online of woolly rhino axis verts... and my vert... pretty close dont you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordpiney Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 that is very impressive!I'm in NJ, can I ask where you collect? Big brook is where I've been going, I'm new to this, so I'm always looking for new places. thanks viper, and everyone else. i collect in big brook as well as many other stream beds in monmouth county. id be happy to show you some other spots sometime. shoot me an email. lordpiney@yahoo.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 ...i was actually thinking woolly rhino, not the miocene appalachian rhino's that were found here. here's a couple pics i found online of woolly rhino axis verts...pretty close dont you think? Looks +/- identical to my (untrained) eye. Awesome fossil! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N.AL.hunter Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I can't ID anything, but if it is Wooly Rhino, I am sooooo jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 hey harry...i was actually thinking woolly rhino, not the miocene appalachian rhino's that were found here. here's a couple pics i found online of woolly rhino axis verts...and my vert... pretty close dont you think? Well, yeah, they do resemble one another. But, it might resemble a horse as well. Here's the fly in the ointment: Woolly rhino's (Coelodonta sp.) are Eurasian animals that never got to North America. So, what species of rhino do you have in mind for this axis??? :huh?: http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 my thought would be to see if you can determine from paleo people in your area what all species of paleo megafauna existed in that area and then use a process of elimination. It looks like a pretty big axis vert, so a lot of the stuff could be automatically ruled out. the problem you may have is trying to find good pictures of axis verts from the various critters. I think if you take some good shots of the thing from each side and each end and dorsal and ventral views, you could post them here and start emailing them around to people who might know something. with those pictures, i could look in a book i have and rule in or out on bison, i think. just be careful to not take any "expert" opinion as gospel without double and triple checking it, because i've been given bad i.d.'s a number of times by "experts". so far i haven't actually met anyone who's attentive enough to detail and possesses sufficient resources to trust with i.d.'s of just any old bone. we do have some very knowledgeable people here in specific areas, though. but i have to say that my son and i have a number of verts that have never been i.d.'d. wonder if a couple of our other r.k.i.'s (reasonable knowledgeable individuals) are going to weigh in on this topic? hey, i found some geologic background info - look what do caribou and sloth axis verts look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N.AL.hunter Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Well, yeah, they do resemble one another. But, it might resemble a horse as well.Here's the fly in the ointment: Woolly rhino's (Coelodonta sp.) are Eurasian animals that never got to North America. So, what species of rhino do you have in mind for this axis??? :huh?: It is obvious that an African Swallow could have carried it over here and then dropped it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 It is obvious that an African Swallow could have carried it over here and then dropped it. Did they have the proper wing speed velocity? (Apologies to Monty Python, et al). "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoRon Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I can't give a positive ID so I'll go with some type of Hellifiknow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Its a nice piece, I'm unsure what it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 very interesting find! compare with these horse atlas and axis (c1-c2) verts http://www.skullsunlimited.com/special-collections.html ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefossilkid Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 thanks viper, and everyone else. i collect in big brook as well as many other stream beds in monmouth county. id be happy to show you some other spots sometime. shoot me an email. lordpiney@yahoo.com. hey awesome find! i also am from NJ and hunt in big brook, thats weird lol i didnt know we had members from nj lol. Jake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordpiney Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Well, yeah, they do resemble one another. But, it might resemble a horse as well.Here's the fly in the ointment: Woolly rhino's (Coelodonta sp.) are Eurasian animals that never got to North America. So, what species of rhino do you have in mind for this axis??? :huh?: the kind that say...willllber! your right harry...id say horse after seeing axis vert pics online. id say that it's pretty old though. lots of mineralization. i bow to your vast mammalian knowlege! lol. i did read though, that they found woolly rhino remains in alaska. here's the link... ...EDIT: deleted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 so you are thinking horse now? but... pleistocene or more recent? fairly recent bones take on iron minerals very quickly in the streambeds of monmouth. but pleistocene bone is usually much more solid. does the vert have notable differences in preservation from some of the other fairly common colonial-recent cow, deer, and pig bones that often turn up in the streams? the kind that say...willllber! your right harry...id say horse after seeing axis vert pics online. id say that it's pretty old though. lots of mineralization. i bow to your vast mammalian knowlege! lol. i did read though, that they found woolly rhino remains in alaska. here's the link......EDIT: deleted... ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordpiney Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 so you are thinking horse now? but... pleistocene or more recent? fairly recent bones take on iron silicate minerals very quickly in the streambeds of monmouth. but pleistocene bone is usually much more solid. does the vert have notable differences in preservation from some of the other fairly common colonial-recent cow, deer, and pig bones that often turn up in the streams? your right about that. ive seen some deer jaws in those creeks that looked ancient, but smelled like death itself. this vert looks, and feels old. it's heavy, and dense. i'll be up that way hunting this weekend or next. i'll let you know when im coming, and i'll bring it with me. you can check it out for yourself, and let me know what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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