sweeneyb Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Finished going through more material and found these. I also was wondering what type of mako is in the last picture. Hope the pictures work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Isurus retroflexus? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 It looks to have serrations near the base, which either rules out mako, or makes it very interesting. I don't know of Isurus escheri or transitional mako/Great Whites coming from Aurora, but that's not to say they aren't there. The "cusps" are occasionally found on juvenile makos. Could you post a pic of the back side of the tooth There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweeneyb Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 It looks to have serrations near the base, which either rules out mako, or makes it very interesting. I don't know of Isurus escheri or transitional mako/Great Whites coming from Aurora, but that's not to say they aren't there. The "cusps" are occasionally found on juvenile makos. Could you post a pic of the back side of the tooth Here is a picture of the back let me know if it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoRon Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 From that side it looks more like a Carcharias tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweeneyb Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 New picture is up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 There are definite serrations at the base. This could be a transitional, but as I said, I've never heard of them coming from Lee Creek before. Nice tooth anyway, whatever it is There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I agree that it is Carcharias. There appears to be at least a weak nutrient groove in the first photo (lingual view). It's uncommon but some odontaspidid teeth can bear serrations on the heels and around the base of the crown. From that side it looks more like a Carcharias tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Boy Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Wow, what a cool tooth! Whether it's a mako or sand tiger, those serrations are awesome. Kevin Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somniosus Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 No mako but definitely a Carcharias, as mentioned already. It belongs to the cuspidata-vorax lineage... In Europe such Mio.-Pliocene tooth would be called Carcharias vorax, but I think in US it's called C. taurus, which is wrong in my opinion. Interesting tooth on the right...looks alopiid, but I don't know the size..if that tooth is very small (couple of mm) than Cetorhinus might be possible. But Alopias and Cetorhinus are genetically very close. http://www.somniosus.be/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweeneyb Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 No mako but definitely a Carcharias, as mentioned already.It belongs to the cuspidata-vorax lineage... In Europe such Mio.-Pliocene tooth would be called Carcharias vorax, but I think in US it's called C. taurus, which is wrong in my opinion. Interesting tooth on the right...looks alopiid, but I don't know the size..if that tooth is very small (couple of mm) than Cetorhinus might be possible. But Alopias and Cetorhinus are genetically very close. I took the tooth in the top right with me to Aurora and was told that it was a Thresher shark I may think it is giant thresher tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somniosus Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Check elasmo for those Alopias from LC... but it's not a grandis, rather Alopias cf. vulpinus... http://www.somniosus.be/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweeneyb Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 After sending the tooth into the FLMNH to a specialist he said this: " I still have your tooth. After seeing it in person, I realized it was not a Carcharodon or Isurus/Cosmpolitodus instantly. I took it over to Gordon Hubbell and he too was stumped. We have made some images and are passing them around for consideration. If you do not mind, I will hold onto it a bit longer until we figure it out, or exhaust our opinions." I am extremely excited about the tooth and surprised that it has even stumped Gordon Hubbell himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 ...it has even stumped Gordon Hubbell himself! Do keep us posted, won't you? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smilodon Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Do keep us posted, won't you? I was told by George Powell that juvenile Mako teeth often have serrations. Don't know if that helps or not although Gordon should know. Just curious who you talked with at FLMNH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweeneyb Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 I sent the tooth to a graduate student named Dana Ehret who I met while doing an internship at the museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smilodon Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I sent the tooth to a graduate student named Dana Ehret who I met while doing an internship at the museum. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notorynchus Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Like Pieter said , this tooth is definitely Carcharias vorax. We regularly find teeth like this one in Belgium ( Pliocene ). In Belgium , they aren't rare. On the picture you see some vorax that I found a couple days ago. They sometimes have a little serration on the base of the crown. Frederik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweeneyb Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 Just heard back from the museum and this is what he had to say: "Well Brian.....We think its some species of Carcharias (sand tiger or ragged tooth shark). It might just be a really large one and hence the serrations, but neither of us came to a consensus. I think it is a lamniform, definitely not white shark...So that's about as good of a guess as I can give you at this time. I just have too many other projects sitting on my desk at the moment. I still have it packed up in the box you sent me and I will get it back in the mail to you this week. Thanks for sending it! Cheers, Dana" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mako-mama Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Like Pieter said , this tooth is definitely Carcharias vorax.We regularly find teeth like this one in Belgium ( Pliocene ). Frederik Frederik, Do you have any anterior teeth of C. vorax teeth that you could post images of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somniosus Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Frederik,Do you have any anterior teeth of C. vorax teeth that you could post images of? I have one on my website: http://users.skynet.be/somniosus/Carcharia...rax-Miocene.htm It's funny that a museum has difficulties identifying a plain Carcharias tooth. http://www.somniosus.be/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somniosus Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 BTW the questioned specimen is a lower lateral. Carcharias vorax is well possible, but it could also be Carcharias cuspidata, as the cusplets are not very developed, but both species are very close. http://www.somniosus.be/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mako-mama Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I have one on my website: http://users.skynet.be/somniosus/Carcharia...rax-Miocene.htmIt's funny that a museum has difficulties identifying a plain Carcharias tooth. Thanks! And please accept my apologies for not re-visiting your website first. My ancient computer and slow internet connection make me lazy-sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I have one on my website: http://users.skynet.be/somniosus/Carcharia...rax-Miocene.htmIt's funny that a museum has difficulties identifying a plain Carcharias tooth. Yeah, a sand tiger with serrations like that is uncommon but not so rare as to be nearly unheard of. I have seen a few from the Mid-Late Eocene of Kazakhstan - teeth ID'ed as either "Mennerotodus" or Jaekelotodus and a few Carcharias from the Oligocene of South Carolina. I believe Gordon Hubbell has a dentition with teeth like that from Kazakhstan in his museum. I am also wondering what species of mako has serrations in juvenile teeth (outside of escheri). Even juvenile great whites can lack serrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makoken Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Yeah, a sand tiger with serrations like that is uncommon but not so rare as to be nearly unheard of. I have seen a few from the Mid-Late Eocene of Kazakhstan - teeth ID'ed as either "Mennerotodus" or Jaekelotodus and a few Carcharias from the Oligocene of South Carolina. I believe Gordon Hubbell has a dentition with teeth like that from Kazakhstan in his museum.I am also wondering what species of mako has serrations in juvenile teeth (outside of escheri). Even juvenile great whites can lack serrations. The only juvenile Mako, with serrations would have to be an Escheri. Is it a juvenile GW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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