New Members ParkerA Posted June 26, 2009 New Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 I found the this rock last week in the lake we live on. The lake is an old gravel pit and I have never quite seen anything like this before. If anyone can help me figure this out, it would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Looks like a lot of crinoid parts. Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members ParkerA Posted June 26, 2009 Author New Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 Looks like a lot of crinoid parts. I did some brief searches and didn't find anything as symetrical as these, but I will do some more research. I appreciate your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I have to vote for crinoid stems also. Maybe someone with pictures of some will post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverphoenix Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 yeah, looks like marine fossil matrix--lots of crinoid parts in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Crinoidal debris; pieces of stem and other bits. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinoid Queen Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Crinoidal debris; pieces of stem and other bits. Yep that's what it is alright i find lots of that stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Inyo Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I found the this rock last week in the lake we live on. The lake is an old gravel pit and I have never quite seen anything like this before. If anyone can help me figure this out, it would be greatly appreciated. Real easy call on this one. You have a bunch of poorly preserved crinoid stems. Paleozoic in geologic age. Crinoid fragments such as yours are the proverbial dime a dozen in many Paleozoic Formations around the world. Not much to get excited over. Unless you have developed an overly sentimental attachment to the specimens, I'd throw 'em right back where you found 'em. http://inyo.110mb.com/dv/tmcrinoids.htm Typical crinoid stem "discs" set from the Lower Mississippian Tin Mountain Limestone, in the mountains surrounding Death Valley National Park. The Tin Mountain Limestone carries abundant crinoidal debris, plus an abundance of many species of nicely preserved corals and brachiopods. Fortunately for the amateur collector, many productive outcrops of the Tin Mountain can be found outside the park's boudaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverphoenix Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Well I think crinoid stems are excellent for beginning collectors and heck I don't mind having a few. Better than throwing them back to continue to be weathered, keep what you find and as your collection grows, give away the lesser, more common specimens to beginning collectors and make room for the larger/better/rarer ones. Every fossil needs to be appreciated and by no means does commonality make a fossil "junk" to be thrown back. Though you might find over time that you need to be selective in what you do bring back--at certain sites, if you tried to bring back every single fossil you saw, well let's just say that you'd need a dump truck or two! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Inyo Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 But, why keep them? They're lousy specimens, even for beginners. And now that that beginner--the original poster--knows that they're nothing special there is no need to retain them. Throw 'em back. Toss 'em. Don't litter up your place with unnecessary fossil material that tells us nothing of importance. Find something better out there and then maybe we can talk about identifications and possibly keeping the specimens. Because crinoid fragments such as the original posters tell us nothing special about anything, except that the strata is Paleozoic. So what? The original poster's state department of geology could have easily told him that. http://inyo.110mb.com/bc/bufcanyon8.html A complete Zelkova leaf, Zelkova brownii, from the Middle Miocene Buffalo Canyon Formation, Nevada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Gotta start somewhere; the first fossil I ever found wasn't exactly new to science, but I thought it was cool. The value is what the finder assigns to it. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Owens Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Gotta start somewhere; the first fossil I ever found wasn't exactly new to science, but I thought it was cool. The value is what the finder assigns to it. EXACTLY! -----"Your Texas Connection!"------ Fossils: Windows to the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverphoenix Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 But, why keep them? They're lousy specimens, even for beginners. And now that that beginner--the original poster--knows that they're nothing special there is no need to retain them. Throw 'em back. Toss 'em. Don't litter up your place with unnecessary fossil material that tells us nothing of importance. Find something better out there and then maybe we can talk about identifications and possibly keeping the specimens. Because crinoid fragments such as the original posters tell us nothing special about anything, except that the strata is Paleozoic. So what? The original poster's state department of geology could have easily told him that. http://inyo.110mb.com/bc/bufcanyon8.html A complete Zelkova leaf, Zelkova brownii, from the Middle Miocene Buffalo Canyon Formation, Nevada. You're going about this Completely the wrong way! Most fossils that people retain tell us nothing more of importance anyways. Most fossils that collectors cherish would be seen as nothing special to the scientific community--but does that mean that we should just "toss" all our fossils away? Obviously you don't realize that scientic importance is Not important when it comes to most beginning collectors. My first fossils were crude limestone stienkerns and gastropod molds, along with many a crinoid stem. If I hadn't kept those to begin with, for one I wouldn't have had a collection to begin with and for two, I wouldn't have gained an appreciation for the more common fossils. The original poster is a beginner and needs somewhere to start. Would you seriously say to someone's face, of one of their first fossils that they're excited to find, "oh just throw that away, it's trash"--I think that would be quite a bit discouraging to a new collector and just plain rude. Fact is, most people don't have access to sites that contain "premium" or "scientifically" valuable specimens--but it doesn't matter. Let's face it--beginning collectors are not scientists and don't care--they're happy with what they get and they eventually will upgrade after they've been in it for a while. What matters most is that they enjoy this hobby and are supported by the community, regardless of how "valuable" of specimens they find, scientifically or monetarily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Inyo Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Throw it back. The original poster now knows it's nothing special. I'm hoping he's not a horder like you, apparently, eager to hang to whatever comes your way in the field. And, by the way, if you ever really want to taken seriously, you should stop throwing strawman arguments around. Nobody's saying that the first fossil one decides to keep ought to be new to science. You have a truly silly perspective on the science of paleontology. Clearly you are a beginner yourself and really understand little about the significance of the kinds of fossils one finds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverphoenix Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think you need a serious attitude adjustment because your malicious remarks will get you nowhere. If you have a problem with me, then send me a PM and I'll give you a piece of my mind. Your above comment is extremelly unprofessional and a personal attack. It is up to the finder what is kept, not you. "Don't litter up your place with unnecessary fossil material that tells us nothing of importance." "Nobody's saying that the first fossil one decides to keep ought to be new to science." ??? And really so everyone who keeps "non scientifically valuable specimens" is a horder now are they? I'm not building this strawman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Personal presumptions don't engender much respect... The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Inyo Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Personal presumptions don't engender much respect... Respect can only be enjoyed if it's from somebody one already respects. I do not respect you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Inyo Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Unlike silverphoenix, I will not cowardly hide behind private communications. I will say what I have right here, for all to see and read. Anyway, I'm outta here. At first I thought RB was precipitous in his decision to leave the board. But, I see now that this is nothing more than a so-called "moderated" dictatorship. (yes, auspex, I see your dictator's note directed to me up at the top of the screen). I'll leave the horder silverphoenix to continue to hide under auspex's skirt--where he obviously belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 ParkerA...sorry for the interruption...I've often picked up interesting rocks in the attempt to learn more about them. There are several crinoid experts on here that can help you with any similar fossils you find at the lake. Good luck with your finds, and welcome to the Forum. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Unlike silverphoenix, I will not cowardly hide behind private communications. I will say what I have right here, for all to see and read. Anyway, I'm outta here. At first I thought RB was precipitous in his decision to leave the board. But, I see now that this is nothing more than a so-called "moderated" dictatorship. (yes, auspex, I see your dictator's note directed to me up at the top of the screen). I'll leave the horder silverphoenix to continue to hide under auspex's skirt--where he obviously belongs. Toodles! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traviscounty Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Tuesdays can be tough on some folks. I'm keepin' all my worthless rocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I still have my first fossil (chunk of coral) in a place of honor.. Welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrocklds Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I found the this rock last week in the lake we live on. The lake is an old gravel pit and I have never quite seen anything like this before. If anyone can help me figure this out, it would be greatly appreciated. Great fossil!! i have been following this thread and i wanted to let you know that crinoid parts are not junk at all. i have some very beautiful and highly scientifically unimportant fossils:P i have never personally found a complete crinoid and regularly collect stems like yours. in fact i collected a couple just yesterday in the ordovician sediments of central utah. and just so you don;t think i am a beginner or amature check out my last projects and some of my other finds. pictures and some more projects i would guess you don't know everything about crinoids so i am going to tell you a few things i have found about them just to illustrate the coolness of your fossil. 1. it is a fossil. 2 it is likely 200-300 million years old. i don't care who you are that is really old. 3. crinoids were once thought to be an extinct animal, but now modern crinoids have been found off the coast of vietnam and elsewere. 4. In 2006, geologists isolated complex organic molecules from 350-million-year-old fossils of crinoids—the oldest such molecules yet found. Christina O'Malley, a doctoral student in earth sciences at The Ohio State University, found orange and yellow organic molecules inside the fossilized remains of several species of crinoids dating back to the Mississippian period. (from wikipedia) 5.The largest fossil crinoid on record had a stem 40 m (130 ft) in length tha tis a huge fossil. (also wikipedia) 6. the process that your fossil has gone through is at least as complicated as stated below. first the animal (it is an animal related to starfish not a plant, although it is sometimes called a sea lily) had to survive in a prehistoric ocean, when it finally died it was washed around on the bottom of the seafloor until it was buried by the sediments deposited by the ocean. over many many years the crinoid stems would have been pushed farther and farther underground by the overlaying sediments. then the ground water would have very slowly disloved away the organic material that the stems were composed of leaving microscopic voids that were then replaced likely by silica and turned the stems into a nearly perfect replica made of stone. then thos rock in which it was encased was thrust up through tectonic activity until it was exposed on the surface of the earth. once exposed rain and water cut the small section of rock from the exposed area and it washed arounf in the river or ocean rounding out the edges and exposing the fossil making it look how it does today. so if someone ever tries to tell you that what you found is boring worthless junk, spit this in there face and watch them squirm! if you ask me i think anything that survives all that deserves a good home and an owner that can apreciate it. ok i am done now Brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geodan03 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Well said, Broc. Though i was enjoying that cat fight of sorts...very imature of you fellows. Why did it have to devolve into name calling..so much for professionalism. I much rather have a nice chat with other "horders" of "worthless" fossils...much more interesting and certainly more pleasant. Shame on you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 wow, brock! really, the perspective i'm about to espouse will be easier to understand if you realize i've got itunes in the background blowing out dire straits "money for nothing", so please forgive me if i rock the flock out whilst others are weighing what's "important" in the world. it's like this. we're all gonna kick off in a fairly meaningless amount of geologic time. if we leave any "important" stuff behind that doesn't resemble cash, it'll probably get thrown out or donated to charity. once upon a time, i had a cool collectible that i acquired through a casual kinda deal in which neither i nor the person i got it from knew much about it. well, i liked it a lot, but later found out that it was worth a whole lot more than i had realized, to the point where i didn't feel i was being responsible to keep it. had to let it go. i still wish it hadn't been worth so much, so i coulda just kept it and enjoyed it. i love all my little treasures. even though tj has all the good stuff in his room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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