RomanK Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Roman http://s1143.photobu.../donbassfossil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 RomanK.... Id go for the 'Counterpart of Lepidodendron feistmantelii'.... but I'm sure Bruno will put us right... Im only guessing.... I havent seen that much bark to compare it to.... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanK Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 RomanK.... Id go for the 'Counterpart of Lepidodendron feistmantelii'.... but I'm sure Bruno will put us right... Im only guessing.... I havent seen that much bark to compare it to.... Thanks Steve, I just compared with Bruno's specimen, look Roman http://s1143.photobu.../donbassfossil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanK Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Ultimately I think that it is Lepidodendron aculeatum comparing with next sources: The Big Soviet Encyclopaedia Lepidodendron aculeatum bse.bmp Czech website www.geology.cz/aps/dvd_stbg/gallery/f2.gif Geocraft publication Lepidodendron aculeatum geocraft.bmp Roman http://s1143.photobu.../donbassfossil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Ultimately I think that it is Lepidodendron aculeatum comparing with next sources: The Big Soviet Encyclopaedia Lepidodendron aculeatum bse.bmp Czech website www.geology.cz/aps/dvd_stbg/gallery/f2.gif Geocraft publication Lepidodendron aculeatum geocraft.bmp Hi my friends here is the holotype (original taxon )Lepidodendron acuelatum which has been described by Sternberg ,Steve, I do not find in the bibliography Lepidodenron feistmantelii, it may be a synonym, sometimes ancient authors have described the same fossil under two different names, what are your bibliographic information ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanK Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Hi my friends here is the holotype (original taxon )Lepidodendron acuelatum which has been described by Sternberg ,Steve, I do not find in the bibliography Lepidodenron feistmantelii, it may be a synonym, sometimes ancient authors have described the same fossil under two different names, what are your bibliographic information ..... Thanks, Bruno, have you heard about diaphorodendron or may be you have a specimen? Roman http://s1143.photobu.../donbassfossil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks, Bruno, have you heard about diaphorodendron or may be you have a specimen? Hi Romank Recent work of Professor DIMICHELE (1983/1985), of DIMICHELE and BATEMAN (1992) on many petrified specimens previously assigned to the genus Lepidodendron Sternberg led the authors to create new genus DIAPHORODENDRON and SYNCHYSIDENDRON from anatomical criteria essentially in structures preserved ,while recognizing that when the material is retained in compression, the distinction between types LEPIDODENDRON and DIAPHORODENDRON SYNCHYSIDENDRON becomes difficult, DIMICHELE (1985 page 452) estimates that a sample should be reported to the genus Lepidodendron when the characters meet the following : 1/rapport height / width of leaf bases is greater than or equal to 1 (rarely less than 1). 2/leaf bases radially thick ,bearing a median keel less ( cauda ) strongly marked transverse striations . 3/presence of parichnos infrafoliars. -Among The french carboniferous samples of the genus diaphorodendron leaf bases are always higher than broad ,lack of parychnos infrafoliar of the essential relationships between different types SYNCHYSIDENDRON and DIAPHORODENDRON are anatomical and focus on how growth occurs and when the reproductive systems begin to develop and can be highlighted on the material held in compression and often distorted. -Several of my specimens show parichnos and thus correspond to such genus Lepidodendron, some have little relief, parichnos are absent and can be attributed to genus SYNCHYSIDENRON, but this is not a certainty, I hope I was clear in my explanation .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Bruno....' Lepidodenron feistmantelii '.... Is just one of the tpyes listed in ' Plant Fossils of the British Coal measures' by C. Cleal & B.Thomas.... Its listed as coming from Wolley Colliery nr Barnsley.... south Yorkshire..... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanK Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Hi Romank Recent work of Professor DIMICHELE (1983/1985), of DIMICHELE and BATEMAN (1992) on many petrified specimens previously assigned to the genus Lepidodendron Sternberg led the authors to create new genus DIAPHORODENDRON and SYNCHYSIDENDRON from anatomical criteria essentially in structures preserved ,while recognizing that when the material is retained in compression, the distinction between types LEPIDODENDRON and DIAPHORODENDRON SYNCHYSIDENDRON becomes difficult, DIMICHELE (1985 page 452) estimates that a sample should be reported to the genus Lepidodendron when the characters meet the following : 1/rapport height / width of leaf bases is greater than or equal to 1 (rarely less than 1). 2/leaf bases radially thick ,bearing a median keel less ( cauda ) strongly marked transverse striations . 3/presence of parichnos infrafoliars. -Among The french carboniferous samples of the genus diaphorodendron leaf bases are always higher than broad ,lack of parychnos infrafoliar of the essential relationships between different types SYNCHYSIDENDRON and DIAPHORODENDRON are anatomical and focus on how growth occurs and when the reproductive systems begin to develop and can be highlighted on the material held in compression and often distorted. -Several of my specimens show parichnos and thus correspond to such genus Lepidodendron, some have little relief, parichnos are absent and can be attributed to genus SYNCHYSIDENRON, but this is not a certainty, I hope I was clear in my explanation .... Hi Bruno, thanks for the detailed exlanation, very interesting. I heard that DIAPHORODENDRON bark has one other spicific feature diamond elements lied like roof tile overlaped each other. After your explanation I looked attentively on my specimen and it seems I can see the parichnos: Roman http://s1143.photobu.../donbassfossil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanK Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Bruno....' Lepidodenron feistmantelii '.... Is just one of the tpyes listed in ' Plant Fossils of the British Coal measures' by C. Cleal & B.Thomas.... Its listed as coming from Wolley Colliery nr Barnsley.... south Yorkshire..... Steve, could you post any image of the Lepidodenron feistmantelii? Roman http://s1143.photobu.../donbassfossil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Hi Bruno, thanks for the detailed exlanation, very interesting. I heard that DIAPHORODENDRON bark has one other spicific feature diamond elements lied like roof tile overlaped each other. After your explanation I looked attentively on my specimen and it seems I can see the parichnos: Yes Romans ,I agree ,they are here ,look the picture ..... bruno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 It is becoming clear that, with paleobotany, there are subtleties that require you to consider the state of preservation before interpreting the specimen. What a tangled web of discovery! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Bruno & RomanK.....Regarding' Lepidodenron feistmantelii '... Being from a book it is possibly subject to 'copyright laws' so I will scan the photo and email it or message it to you privately.... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 It is becoming clear that, with paleobotany, there are subtleties that require you to consider the state of preservation before interpreting the specimen. What a tangled web of discovery! Although I'm not specifically fascinated with botanical fossils, it is clear that we have some extremely knowledgeable members in this field; and I can appreciate that. A tip of the hat, gentlemen. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanK Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 Although I'm not specifically fascinated with botanical fossils, it is clear that we have some extremely knowledgeable members in this field; and I can appreciate that. A tip of the hat, gentlemen. Thanks, John, your compliment is mainly toward Bruno and Steve address, I'm just a beginner and try to learn more. Roman. Roman http://s1143.photobu.../donbassfossil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Bruno & RomanK.....Regarding' Lepidodenron feistmantelii '... Being from a book it is possibly subject to 'copyright laws' so I will scan the photo and email it or message it to you privately.... Hi Steve and Roman I searched the literature and found eureka! it is actually a synonym Lepidodendron feistmanteli Zalessky 1904 is synonymous with Lepidodendron jaraczewski Zeiller Bureau 1913, in paleobotany is often the case, obviously the autor has taken the original name of the holotype GSM number 77179 . -About the specimen of Romans it is a Lepidodendron obovatum ,there also are synonymous between Lepidodendron obovatum Sternberg 1886 and Lepidodendron mannabachense Presl 1838 ,In the publication of Thomas ( 1970 ), the diagnosis is clear, the leaf scars is located in the upper third of the leaf bases for Lepidodendron jaraczewski the leaf scars is centrally located and there is no parichnos..... . -To inform the Master Zeiller dedicated the species, L. jaraczewski , in 1886 in honor mister Jaraczewski mining engineer in the "Mines de Dourges" in northern France, he thought being in the presence of an endemic species, it was a mistake in this case a wide distribution throughout the Euramerican floristic continent best regards bruno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Although I'm not specifically fascinated with botanical fossils, it is clear that we have some extremely knowledgeable members in this field; and I can appreciate that. A tip of the hat, gentlemen. JohnJ & RomanK....We have Bruno to thank for his dedication to his passion.... I'm a mere 'finder of fossils', which I thoroughly enjoy.... although the level of enthusiasm portrayed here, is making me learn and become more aware of the overall picture, than just finding 'nice nodules'...Its a big jigsaw, the more pieces you see and learn, the more of the picture you can imagine and appreciate.... Thanks again Bruno.... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanK Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 Hi Steve and Roman I searched the literature and found eureka! it is actually a synonym Lepidodendron feistmanteli Zalessky 1904 is synonymous with Lepidodendron jaraczewski Zeiller Bureau 1913, in paleobotany is often the case, obviously the autor has taken the original name of the holotype GSM number 77179 . -About the specimen of Romans it is a Lepidodendron obovatum ,there also are synonymous between Lepidodendron obovatum Sternberg 1886 and Lepidodendron mannabachense Presl 1838 ,In the publication of Thomas ( 1970 ), the diagnosis is clear, the leaf scars is located in the upper third of the leaf bases for Lepidodendron jaraczewski the leaf scars is centrally located and there is no parichnos..... . -To inform the Master Zeiller dedicated the species, L. jaraczewski , in 1886 in honor mister Jaraczewski mining engineer in the "Mines de Dourges" in northern France, he thought being in the presence of an endemic species, it was a mistake in this case a wide distribution throughout the Euramerican floristic continent best regards bruno Bruno, Lepidodendron aculeatum or Lepidodendron obovatum?? Roman http://s1143.photobu.../donbassfossil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdutronc Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Bruno, Lepidodendron aculeatum or Lepidodendron obovatum?? Hi Romans In any case it is not Lepidodendron feistmanteli ,I think the morphological characteristics of your specimen are closer to L. obovatum, L. acuelatum is more elongated ! best regards bruno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanK Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 Hi Romans In any case it is not Lepidodendron feistmanteli ,I think the morphological characteristics of your specimen are closer to L. obovatum, L. acuelatum is more elongated ! best regards bruno Hi Bruno, agree it's not Lepidodendron feistmanteli. You mentioned Zalessky (1904), this person worked in Donbass region with Devonian specimens in 30-th last century (50 km from Donetsk). Roman http://s1143.photobu.../donbassfossil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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