Ammonite with water under the shell?

[Conrad]

Optical illusions do not giggle 

 

[Ramo]

I see it in the short video Tim made.  It sure looks like a bubble in water to me!

Ramo

[Fossildude19]

7 minutes ago, Conrad said:

Well I appreciate your opinion... I’m going to take it to some fossil people at my local university. 

We will just agree to disagree but I appreciate all your insight and different view of things

 

Thanks for your help 

I think you might need to drill a hole in the ammonite to prove it is water. 

I am skeptical that it is an optical illusion, but, I cannot entirely rule out that explanation.

 

 

17 minutes ago, ynot said:

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  51 minutes ago, Conrad said:

If I was to cut this ammonite in half this section would be a hollow area. 

No it would not.

 

@ Ynot, ... Many of these ammonites do have voids in them. 

 

 

    

 

 

   

[ynot]

3 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

Many of these ammonites do have voids in them. 

Yes they are, and I am and was aware of this.

But if the OP's piece is translucent enough to see a bubble in it then it would allow light to pass through from the other side.

It does not, therefore it must be solid.

[Conrad]

It’s over 7 pounds.. 

Im not going to drill inside it since this seems to be such a rare occurrence.

I might if that’s the only option.. I will wait to see if it drys out over time.. 

[ynot]

32 minutes ago, Conrad said:

I’m going to take it to some fossil people at my local university. 

Please do, and let Us know what they say about it.

[Kane]

Definitely bring it to some fossil folks at a museum or university, but don't forget to let us know what they say! A very mysterious piece... 

[Conrad]

I will, thank you for everyone’s insight

[Ramo]

Well if it is water from when it fossilized....

[Fossildude19]

41 minutes ago, ynot said:

Yes they are, and I am and was aware of this.

But if the OP's piece is translucent enough to see a bubble in it then it would allow light to pass through from the other side.

It does not, therefore it must be solid.

Couldn't it be that it is solid on the other side, and voided on the "bubble"  side? 

[ynot]

9 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

Couldn't it be that it is solid on the other side, and voided on the "bubble"  side? 

Possible, but not likely because of the way agates are deposited into a void. It will layer all the way around the outer area of the void, so what is on one side should be on the other.

[Conrad]

Very interesting @ynot

[FranzBernhard]

2 hours ago, Conrad said:

Only moved my iPhone... see how nothing changes

Thanks, @Conrad!

Yes, not much is changing, the large "bubble" seems to be stable.

Last test:

1. Hold your phone stable and move the ammo in such a way, so that the "bubble" is clearly wandering.

2. Then leave the ammo fixed and move your phone in such a way, that the reflection of the light source follows the same path as in the first case.

(Hope, this is comprehensible...). This should be easily done, you have the reflection of the light source as a marker. And only two objects are involved (ammo and phone).

In other words: Make the same trajectory of the light source on your ammo in two ways: 1. one with the ammo moving, 2. one with the phone moving.

Franz Bernhard

[Ramo]

There is a salt mine in Kansas, where you can take a tour, I believe it is 700 feet underground.  I remember seeing some large salt crystals there with water inclusions.   I believe there are also herkimer diamonds with water as well.

[minnbuckeye]

2 hours ago, Conrad said:

If I tilt the object up the bubble goes up... if I tilt the object down the bubble goes down...

 

Is there any delay of the movement of the bubble as you move it? Again if fluid, its movement may be delayed a bit. If it is optics, it should occur immediately as you move it.

[Misha]

I definetley think this is a water bubble, it moves very similar to the way one would, I have a piece of quartz with an enhydro in it and I think that a fossil should be able to form with one too.

[Conrad]

@minnbuckeye yes there is a delay, I can control how fast the “bubble” moves & where it goes... it seems as if there are some parts that have caverns and some that do not..

its very difficult for me to get a video of it since I can only add a second long video...  

[FranzBernhard]

15 minutes ago, Ramo said:

I remember seeing some large salt crystals there with water inclusions.   I believe there are also herkimer diamonds with water as well.

Absolutely true! But these are single crystals. You can have very large (several cm!) and flat "fluid inclusions", as they are called, in quartz crystals, stable over serval millions of years. But this ammo is a different thing, it has cracks and - it is made of polycrystalline material with grain boundaries. These are not watertight.

Franz Bernhard

16 minutes ago, minnbuckeye said:

Is there any delay of the movement of the bubble as you move it?

Good point!!

Franz Bernhard

[Conrad]

This is a rough observation of where the bubble flows...

I was hoping it to be fossil water  haha! 

I think that there is a micro crack in it somewhere and when they were doing there cleaning/preparation of the rock some water seeped in over the course of a pretty decent period of time... I will let everyone know what I find out when I take it in to get it checked out in person.. 

[FranzBernhard]

13 minutes ago, Conrad said:

yes there is a delay, I can control how fast the “bubble” moves & where it goes... it seems as if there are some parts that have caverns and some that do not..

its very difficult for me to get a video of it since I can only add a second long video...  

Now this is convincing and strongly supporting, if not proving, the bubble theory.

We can conclude now, that the ammo is chambered and the chambers are nearly filled with water. But it is still not fossil water! Do you have a kitchen scale with gramm resolution? You can try to weigh your specimen every day/week and see if it looses weight.

Yes, I had difficulties analyzing your short videos.

And thanks for your preseverance! Not everyone would endure our insistent questions .

Franz Bernhard

[Conrad]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.alibaba.com/amp/product/103909561.html

 

i found this link... might be what I am talking about? 

 

 

[Misha]

2 minutes ago, FranzBernhard said:

But it is still not fossil water

You mention that water can come from the prep process, I don't get how this much of it can get in there as the ammonite would not be completely submerged in the water long enough for it to get filled up with water especially since the cracks would be microscopic and barely let any water through.

[Conrad]

@misha someone recently said that it could be rain water that seeped into it.. I’ve had this piece a little over a week & just notice it.. in the photo of the seller holding it I think I can spot the bubble.. I imagine it will take sometime for it to seep out. Maybe they put a coat of something over it as well that traps the water inside? I’m not sure either, really hoping for it to be fossil water haha  

[FranzBernhard]

3 minutes ago, Misha said:

You mention that water can come from the prep process, I don't get how this much of it can get in there as the ammonite would not be completely submerged in the water long enough for it to get filled up with water especially since the cracks would be microscopic and barely let any water through.

Thats true, but nobody knows the exact cirumstances of recovery, transport and prep. There is also the possibility that it is still ground water or rain water in there. But for real fossil water, the structure of this material is not tight enough. Too many cracks, too many grain boundaries...

Franz Bernhard

[LordTrilobite]

19 hours ago, Conrad said:

I really see a bubble moving in it but who knows.. 

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At first I didn't see it and was on the optical illusion side. But in this video you can quite clearly see a shape moving after the Ammonite and camera stops moving. So yeah, I agree that this is a fluid inside of the Ammonite. It's mainly hard to see because the video is so short.

What would help is having a bit longer video where you move the Ammonite first and then stop moving it so that hopefully the bubble starts moving and then settles a while after you stop moving the Ammonite.